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2010-07-08
, 19:49
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#22
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Originally Posted by acvetkov
In Maemo, you forget all the Nokia applications that were included.. like in the older OS, MANY applications are STILL closed-source. For example, the media player is still closed (and TIGHTLY tied to all the other apps). The file manager too. And so on and so on. This has continued on into the Fremantle version with all these complaints about the same apps as well as some newer ones like the closed-source calendar and mapping app and on and on. These are ALWAYS going to be flashed onto your device with the image and MANY of these applications cannot be removed. The ones that CAN be often damage the operating system when you do.
Ok, I need to clarify.
Linux - open source, access, freedom.
Maemo - everyting open except Battery module and Video driver (if am missing something please point it) Thats really vendor issue not Maemo
MeeGo - everything is going to be open (at least this is what they say)
Maemo/Meego you can take random source and complie
Android - re-written libc (the source is still not at kernel.org as far as I know) Provider locking, no full access JAVA DALVIK UI. You have to root Android to access it and you still can`t use random linux application due to the re-written libc. Android is the most closed "open source" OS out here. You are restricted like in iOS.
Please don`t compare Maemo/Meego to Android they are completly different.
If MeeGo is going to be so damned open, why are there so many complaints about dependencies on closed drivers and applications in firmware images all over again?
Android can easily be compared to Maemo for the same walled garden--especially with Ovi thrown in and these dependencies I just pointed out. Sure--they rewrote libc for their java-based environment, but Maemo re-broke xorgso that you can't even use a damned mouse without hacking it up and "rooting" and re-broke Bluez so that you can't use a keyboard without the same tactic. Worse, if you find some deep problems with their apps or drivers, you can't fix it or depend on someone to fix it for you outside of Nokia and you end up facing the possibility of a "fixed in [next Maemo]" debacle... which is even worse now that there won't be a next Maemo.
Sorry--but yeah, Maemo and Android aren't THAT much different. They're both BASED on Linux.. but they BOTH mangled up the source-code with binary blobs.
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2010-07-08
, 19:51
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Posts: 739 |
Thanked: 114 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#23
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What the heck is Meego anyway....
Meego..noGO...weGO iGO...youGO.
Meego..noGO...weGO iGO...youGO.
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2010-07-08
, 19:57
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Posts: 1,746 |
Thanked: 2,100 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
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#24
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Originally Posted by danramos
There are no closed applications in MeeGo.
If MeeGo is going to be so damned open, why are there so many complaints about dependencies on closed drivers and applications in firmware images all over again?
Anything that is closed is device and vendor specific, which the vendor may be unwiling or legally unable to release. I suspect that is the case for Nokia's BME (legal eagles saving the company,) and is definitely the case for the PowerVR drivers.
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2010-07-08
, 20:01
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Posts: 161 |
Thanked: 70 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#25
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Originally Posted by danramos
Now read carefull what you write. BlueZ and xorgso modifications from a telephone vendor? Aww thats bad. They use their software for the basic functions? Hm thats strange too... can`t believe they didn`t let us see their property application source code.
Android can easily be compared to Maemo for the same walled garden--especially with Ovi thrown in and these dependencies I just pointed out. Sure--they rewrote libc for their java-based environment, but Maemo re-broke xorgso that you can't even use a damned mouse without hacking it up and "rooting" and re-broke Bluez so that you can't use a keyboard without the same tactic. Worse, if you find some deep problems with their apps or drivers, you can't fix it or depend on someone to fix it for you outside of Nokia and you end up facing the possibility of a "fixed in [next Maemo]" debacle... which is even worse now that there won't be a next Maemo.
.
Compare that to re-written libc and java UI... locks to provider, need to root to gain full access (kinda of) and no native linux applications...
Sorry I don`t see any valid comparison here. But I see you point which is not accurate - you think when someone is selling device with linux it should be fully open. Nokia cares about money. Maemo/MeeGo cares about openess. N900 is between them openess with property software from Nokia. So this is no way near Android closed and unfriendly for hacking envoriement.
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2010-07-08
, 20:03
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Posts: 52 |
Thanked: 15 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
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#26
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well,.......... I guess they could use android....in the lower end?
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2010-07-08
, 20:04
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Posts: 4,556 |
Thanked: 1,624 times |
Joined on Dec 2007
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#27
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Remember, when talking about Linux and openness you have to keep three things in mind.
Connotation, Denotation, and degree.
Connotation, Denotation, and degree.
__________________
Originally Posted by ysss
They're maemo and MeeGo...
"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
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2010-07-08
, 20:24
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Posts: 1,400 |
Thanked: 3,751 times |
Joined on Sep 2009
@ Arctic cold of northern .fi
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#28
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Originally Posted by ossipena
Things aren't going really peachy for Nokia in rest of the world either. Even in Europe, during the last 12 months smartphonephone marketshare 50%->40%, mobilephones 40%->32%. Or my personal experience of seeing the explosion of Samsung and Apple phones on random people in Espoo...
e: and did you notice the perspective?
O = ameeriikaa
. = rest of the world
But as far as the topic goes, I don't think that Nokia should, nor do I think that they will start making Android phones. Quite frankly my dears, I don't give a damn about what logo is on my phone, as long as it's a good phone. So, no Nokia Android phones please. If it loses this platform war, I would much rather see Nokia continuing it's incredible and unique history of re-inventing itself than becoming a logo printed on top of ARM+Android products.
Nokia started it's existence during the mid-19th century industrial explosion, since then it has allways shed off old-tech that has become commodized, and gone after the next new thing. Last such big transition was done in early 90's when Nokia stopped making TVs and computers and moved into telecom and IT. This was possible thanks to it's astronomical R&D expenditure, which short terms investors like to ***** about, but it allows the kind of 'deep research' built into Nokia's corporate ethos. Just to give few examples from last weeks: nanotech, earthquake detection and atmospheric modelling. It took almost twenty years before investments started in late 60s on mobile-tech produced quaterly profit and over 20 years before those investments payed off, but it was those investments made possible that last big transtion. That's the Nokia DNA I care about, instead of a logo on a phone, toilet paper, computer, rubber boots or industrial cable.
Sorry about going on a rantish long history perspective.
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2010-07-08
, 20:31
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Posts: 4,672 |
Thanked: 5,455 times |
Joined on Jul 2008
@ Springfield, MA, USA
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#29
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Originally Posted by acvetkov
Sorry, I simply don't agree that putting up closed walls around open-source makes it "more open." You still suffer from depending on the flash image given to you by the vendor and you can't install the OS you wanted. If you decide you want to install a fully opened OS and didn't want the vendor's garbage (spyware like Nokia's SMS message debacle, for example) you can't choose NOT to get it if THAT firmware image (one with those closed drivers and apps) are the only ones that will flash and then run properly. Had we ONLY been talking about loading closed applications inside of an open OS, it'd be a different thing than the lock-in to drivers and apps you have no say in.
Now read carefull what you write. BlueZ and xorgso modifications from a telephone vendor? Aww thats bad. They use their software for the basic functions? Hm thats strange too... can`t believe they didn`t let us see their property application source code.
Compare that to re-written libc and java UI... locks to provider, need to root to gain full access (kinda of) and no native linux applications...
Sorry I don`t see any valid comparison here. But I see you point which is not accurate - you think when someone is selling device with linux it should be fully open. Nokia cares about money. Maemo/MeeGo cares about openess. N900 is between them openess with property software from Nokia. So this is no way near Android closed and unfriendly for hacking envoriement.
Maemo and Android are both Linux based operating systems that corrupted the whole intent and benefit of open-source and the GPL. Seems very similar to me.
I still hope that MeeGo changes this--but with Nokia's history so far, I'm feeling pessimistic.
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2010-07-08
, 20:32
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Posts: 1,296 |
Thanked: 1,773 times |
Joined on Aug 2009
@ Budapest, Hungary
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#30
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Originally Posted by x61
If they switched to Android, I wouldn't ever buy from them again. This is a personal preference, but it is my least favourite operating system.
The question circulating around is: should Nokia drop the MeeGo and throw in Android?
I hate Google's crap. They should have stayed in the search engine business.
If Nokia switched to Android, Windows Phone would remain the only sensible opportunity.
__________________
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Linux - open source, access, freedom.
Maemo - everyting open except Battery module and Video driver (if am missing something please point it) Thats really vendor issue not Maemo
MeeGo - everything is going to be open (at least this is what they say)
Maemo/Meego you can take random source and complie
Android - re-written libc (the source is still not at kernel.org as far as I know) Provider locking, no full access JAVA DALVIK UI. You have to root Android to access it and you still can`t use random linux application due to the re-written libc. Android is the most closed "open source" OS out here. You are restricted like in iOS.
Please don`t compare Maemo/Meego to Android they are completly different.