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danramos is offline danramos
2010-07-16 , 20:59
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#81
Signed or unsigned, you know that these measures won't last long and someone will mod it successfully anyway. Hell, XBOX 360 did the same thing and it was already compromised pretty much as soon as it hit store shelves.

I am still pretty ticked off that Motorola went that route, though. My Motorola Droid is the first Motorola cell phone I've ever bought--and it might just be the last one, too. That's a shame, as I'm really--really loving it. Although, to be honest, I've never rooted my phone and I don't see a need to, it bothers me a LOT that they would go out of their way to tell me as their customer that I am not allowed to customize or otherwise do with my own device whatever I want. If I'd bought a car or a house and was told that I can't replace parts, I'd be pretty angry too. A better analogy is buying Internet service and being told that I can ONLY use a computer they sold me and then I can't install any other operating system on that computer. I don't see how my cellphone is any different. I'm paying the telco and the hardware manufacturer for their telco/data service and for their hardware respectively. They should let go of their obsession with controlling their customers.
 

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smoku is offline smoku
2010-07-16 , 21:10
Posts: 1,716 | Thanked: 3,007 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Warsaw, Poland
#82
I've been thinking to why do they go to such measures to lock the software in the hardware. And have no idea. They're hardware manufacturer. Unless the software manufacturer forces them to.

It's like if I bought DELL laptop and found out that there is a chip installed that protects the installed Windows OS from replacing by other OS. There's no DELL interest in this - they sold me the hardware already. Only the OS manufacturer has interest in not allowing me to replace the OS.
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quipper8 is offline quipper8
2010-07-16 , 22:34
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#83
Originally Posted by smoku View Post
I've been thinking to why do they go to such measures to lock the software in the hardware. And have no idea. They're hardware manufacturer. Unless the software manufacturer forces them to.

It's like if I bought DELL laptop and found out that there is a chip installed that protects the installed Windows OS from replacing by other OS. There's no DELL interest in this - they sold me the hardware already. Only the OS manufacturer has interest in not allowing me to replace the OS.
Because there is whole. Lot more money in bundling and inside deals than separate hardware software provider. Posted from a Samsung vibrant with a T-Mobile logo on it running android, see what I mean. The master of the locked stack is apple and they make the most money per handset. Unfortunately this is the way it seems more and more are going. Wp7, bada. Meego
 
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smoku is offline smoku
2010-07-16 , 23:34
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#84
No I still don't understand Android case.
I do understand Apple case - they are both hardware and software vendor, so locking their users to their OS is beneficial. This also monopolizes application store and gives them a % of every sale.

But Motorola is not software vendor. But maybe this is a good hint. Maybe locking Motorola users in SHOP4APPS is the rationale behind these moves.
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Laughing Man is offline Laughing Man
2010-07-16 , 23:47
Posts: 4,556 | Thanked: 1,624 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#85
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Signed or unsigned, you know that these measures won't last long and someone will mod it successfully anyway. Hell, XBOX 360 did the same thing and it was already compromised pretty much as soon as it hit store shelves.

I am still pretty ticked off that Motorola went that route, though. My Motorola Droid is the first Motorola cell phone I've ever bought--and it might just be the last one, too. That's a shame, as I'm really--really loving it. Although, to be honest, I've never rooted my phone and I don't see a need to, it bothers me a LOT that they would go out of their way to tell me as their customer that I am not allowed to customize or otherwise do with my own device whatever I want. If I'd bought a car or a house and was told that I can't replace parts, I'd be pretty angry too. A better analogy is buying Internet service and being told that I can ONLY use a computer they sold me and then I can't install any other operating system on that computer. I don't see how my cellphone is any different. I'm paying the telco and the hardware manufacturer for their telco/data service and for their hardware respectively. They should let go of their obsession with controlling their customers.
True, but it's more annoying that you have to jump through any hopes (jailbreaking on the iPhone, rooting on Android, fighting Nokia when it comes to closed parts on the N900).

Originally Posted by smoku View Post
No I still don't understand Android case.
I do understand Apple case - they are both hardware and software vendor, so locking their users to their OS is beneficial. This also monopolizes application store and gives them a % of every sale.

But Motorola is not software vendor. But maybe this is a good hint. Maybe locking Motorola users in SHOP4APPS is the rationale behind these moves.
Well several reasons.

1) Force you to use their ecosystem
2) Force you to buy new hardware to get the latest and greatest Android OS
3) Brand protection (people complaining about hacked Droid Xs being buggy). Kinda like how some people here complain about the N900 when they screw it up themselves. =P

But in reality, the number of people who would root and then complain about it are very small and probably does little to no brand damage to the manufacturer.
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Originally Posted by ysss View Post
They're maemo and MeeGo...

"Meamo!" sounds like what Zorro would say to catherine zeta jones... after she slaps him for looking at her dirtily...
 

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notnarb is offline notnarb
2010-07-17 , 20:18
Posts: 109 | Thanked: 56 times | Joined on Apr 2009
#86
As someone stuck on Verizon and no foreseeable CDMA Meego phones on the horizon I went ahead and bought the last one at Costco on launch day (and by last one at Costco, I mean last one at all 5 Costcos in San Diego). Coming from a texting dumbphone / n810, I must say, its kind of amazing. Of course I loose the ability do linux stuff, but the end result is something much more functional. Unfortunately my n810 doesn't want to play nicely with my new toy and properly tether, so it looks like its going to be retired as a server for my external hard drive :'(.

Fits surprisingly well in a pocket, but then again, I used to cram my n810 in one. It's only ~15% wider than an env2, same thickness at the hump so really I just have a longer, thinner phone. It's really fast, the camera is pretty damn good (haven't seen any comparisons with the n900 though), and so far exceeded all of my expectations (aside from tethering). When Fall quarter rolls around, I'm going to be crying with my newfound inability to SSH -Y, but I guess I'll get over it.
 

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rewt is offline rewt
2010-07-20 , 05:20
Posts: 150 | Thanked: 93 times | Joined on Oct 2009 @ Pennsylvania, US
#87
It's definitely impressive, as far as Android devices without hardware keyboards go. After some hesitation, I pulled the trigger today... and will hopefully be in possession of it by next week. Then it'll be time to retire my N900 as primary in-pocket device, and relegate it to sitting idle on my desk, until the occasion when it is readily available and a full blown PC experience isn't needed. It will be a sad day... until I pop on my headphones and stream Sirius without having to worry about what broke sipie this time, because there is an app for that. Sigh.

I couldn't stand waiting any longer for the Ovi store to populate for Maemo (if ever, since it's a dead platform). I couldn't stand waiting for T-mobile to decide they are ready to accept my money in return for cellular service with a chance of 3G (they won't sell in my area, since there is a good chance of roaming). I know I'm going to regret my decision the first time I need to do one of the things that Maemo replaced my laptop for (such as using ssh, nmap, vpnc, rdesktop, traceroute, or ping for troubleshooting at work). The DX is far from a perfect device in my eyes, but at this time Android is a far more mature platform which has become recognized for what it is, and is getting attention from service providers to develop applications in-house, as opposed to relying on community-developed, reverse engineered substitutes. Don't get me wrong - I am thankful for the Maemo community and all they have managed to develop for and port to the platform (I would have likely left long ago, otherwise), but I've finally reached a point where that just isn't enough.
Last edited by rewt; 2010-07-20 at 05:24.
 

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danramos is offline danramos
2010-07-20 , 09:53
Posts: 4,672 | Thanked: 5,455 times | Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA
#88
Originally Posted by notnarb View Post
When Fall quarter rolls around, I'm going to be crying with my newfound inability to SSH -Y, but I guess I'll get over it.
What are you talking about? I use ConnectBot to ssh all over God's creation from my Motorola Droid. Not sure if I misunderstood what you meant, but you can certainly ssh and quite comfortably too. (I also use a folding bluetooth keyboard, too.)
 
GeraldKo is offline GeraldKo
2010-07-20 , 17:43
Posts: 1,950 | Thanked: 1,174 times | Joined on Jan 2008 @ Seattle, USA
#89
@notnarb

OT

Be so kind as to explain: your N810 is "going to be retired as a server for my external hard drive"?
 
notnarb is offline notnarb
2010-07-21 , 11:41
Posts: 109 | Thanked: 56 times | Joined on Apr 2009
#90
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
What are you talking about? I use ConnectBot to ssh all over God's creation from my Motorola Droid. Not sure if I misunderstood what you meant, but you can certainly ssh and quite comfortably too. (I also use a folding bluetooth keyboard, too.)
-Y for X11 (GUI) support, allowing you to run things like netbeans and firefox from the client. As a compsci student, being able to easily edit your netbeans project from the device in your pocket is stupidly useful.

Be so kind as to explain: your N810 is "going to be retired as a server for my external hard drive"?
Sure thing. I hook up my externally powered hard drive to my n810 with a microUSB male -> USB A female cable, hook it up to my wifi network at home, write down the IP address somewhere and SSH/SCP onto it to get my files from the drive at a MIND BLOWING 300 KB/s (or whatever the silly cap of the wifi chip is). Maybe if I'm feeling adventurous, I'll make it an FTP server register a domain name to use for it.

Sorry if you thought I meant somehow permanently fixing a hard drive into my n810 :P
 

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