Nokia has exciting news for N900 users - Page 41 - maemo.org

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	ossipena	2010-07-22 , 19:20
	Posts: 3,159 \| Thanked: 2,023 times \| Joined on Feb 2008 @ Finland	#401

Originally Posted by maartenmk

It is actually quite difficult to spot the difference between a high quality jpeg and the raw image. The artifacts present in the N900's (and most other mobiles) pictures are the result of post-processing.

well if white balance etc is 100% correct in jpeg, then yes.

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	danramos	2010-07-22 , 19:40
	Posts: 4,672 \| Thanked: 5,455 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA	#402

Originally Posted by pthomas22

Downloaded Fcam.
It is awesome for a mobile phone.
Manual control of ISO (100 to 3200)
Manual control of shutter speed (1/8000s to 1sec)
manual WB (3000 to 8000)
Manual focus (5cm to >5m)
expose for highlights or shadows
HDR (but doesn't create the HDR photo but easy to do this in Photoshop) The HDR creator is an app in Dev
Live histogram
rule of thirds grid
multi burst frames

This is what I was looking for--what DOES it do. It's a decent list but does a lot less than I'd expected. But still, it opens the doors WIDE open, given it's open-source and replaces that crap closed-driver from Nokia.

Originally Posted by pthomas22

Yes it was and I'd say it was pretty big news.
Just because some N900 owners want everything and want it yesterday does not diminish Fcam and it's potential for developers

Although I agree with your assessment of the news, I don't agree with your sentiment about N900 owners. I believe N900 owners simply wanted to hear that some of their daily nagging issues might have been resolved. Say, a new firmware update to fix those nagging issues at the very least... at best, maybe some incredibly cool new accessories or, God forbid, news that support has been improved in some way. SOMETHING that pretty much every other company and device gets and we Nokia owners have been lacking.

This is very cool, mind you--but I personally would rather have heard that they did something to sooth over their relationship with consumers. On the other hand, maybe having an open-source camera app IS a little part of that, given the repeated call to open up more of the apps on the N900. This is why I do want to point out how GREAT a moment this is, but I can understand the disappointment to such a build-up. I'd wager it would have gone over MUCH better if there hadn't been a build-up of anticipation over some good news for N900 owners.

Originally Posted by bjknight

What is its potential for devs? I'm confused.

Open-source vs closed-source camera driver and app. Opening it up created an incredible potential.

Originally Posted by mikecomputing

People like ýou should not buy an N900 go buy something else instead of crying like a ten year old kid.

That's it. Keep telling people to go buy something else.

I'm sure that LESS users and LESS community will absolutely improve the experience. Mind you, my impression is that you're not sporting a different attitude than Nokia themselves... so maybe you're right. :P

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KiberGus	2010-07-22 , 20:07
Posts: 254 \| Thanked: 122 times \| Joined on Nov 2009	#403

Originally Posted by RFS-81

So, what is your solution?

Should new apps be denied from maemo repos until they have been tested with titans kernel? What if the developer is not interested in overclocking and cannot be arsed to do this? His/her (otherwise fine app) will never appear in repos? What if tomorrow we will get a neat unofficial kernel from Paul, and another one from Mary? Apps now need to be tested with all four available kernels before allowing them to repos?

No, that is nonsense -- that kind of control is possible only among components of a closed system. The only sensible way to do it here is the one that was practiced: develop and test with the official kernel, official components. If there are problems with community add-ons, fix them as problems appear, if feasible.

And what should be done if official packages DO HAVE errors and mainstream [s]developers[/s] managers DON'T WANT to fix them?

You say it's nonsense, it's not possible... As a gentoo user I say: it is possible and it works quite well.

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	Tomaszd	2010-07-22 , 20:18
	Posts: 284 \| Thanked: 498 times \| Joined on Jun 2009 @ Poland	#404

Originally Posted by danramos

This is what I was looking for--what DOES it do. It's a decent list but does a lot less than I'd expected. (...)

What else did you expect on that list then? Remember that it's an example application.

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Deaconclgi	2010-07-22 , 20:20
Posts: 337 \| Thanked: 192 times \| Joined on Feb 2010 @ Atlanta	#405

Originally Posted by RFS-81

So, what is your solution?

Should new apps be denied from maemo repos until they have been tested with titans kernel? What if the developer is not interested in overclocking and cannot be arsed to do this? His/her (otherwise fine app) will never appear in repos? What if tomorrow we will get a neat unofficial kernel from Paul, and another one from Mary? Apps now need to be tested with all four available kernels before allowing them to repos?

No, that is nonsense -- that kind of control is possible only among components of a closed system. The only sensible way to do it here is the one that was practiced: develop and test with the official kernel, official components. If there are problems with community add-ons, fix them as problems appear, if feasible.

My solution is to:
A: Wait for Titan to modify the kernel
B: Wait for new Fcam drivers that supports Titan's kernel (and others)
C: Reflash to stock and enjoy Fcam

I said that it surprised me that they didn't KNOW about Titans kernel. Not one time did I say that it surprised me that Fcam doesn't work with Titans kernel or that it SHOULD work. I then used an engineering example of what me being surprised felt like. Like designing engines and never driving the cars that they power. A "woa" feeling of I didn't know car X could do this!

You are right about designing applications with official components. I can't agree more. I never questioned that or suggested otherwise.

To make it clear, I would be just as surprised if a developer spent 5 years of development with a target release on the N900 and not know that there is a N64 Emulator, NITDroid or fMMS as these are large projects that have recievedmedia attention beyond TMO. I would think that the people close to the project would have seen, heard, known about high profile N900 projects even if they have nothing to do with them and they don't affect their project development.

That says NOTHING against that devoloper. All I am saying is that I am/would be surprised.

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
By the way, I found this on: https://garage.maemo.org/forum/forum...&forum_id=5871

By: Eino-Ville Talvala
RE: Hi everyone [ reply ]
2010-07-22 11:08
Ayodeji,

The message means that our replacement drivers aren't being loaded properly at boot time (and therefore there's no camera device to access).

It's likely a version mismatch problem - the kernel won't load modules that don't match its version string, and Titan's kernel likely has a different version string than the stock one.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

It is great to see open conversation and more information about the conflict. I would expect Titans Kernel to be updated before the Fcam Team updates their drivers. But then again, I could be surprised.

Last edited by Deaconclgi; 2010-07-22 at 20:23.

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	danramos	2010-07-22 , 20:32
	Posts: 4,672 \| Thanked: 5,455 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA	#406

Originally Posted by Tomaszd

What else did you expect on that list then? Remember that it's an example application.

It's a great question. I pointed out some of the things I really loved about Camera360 on my Android over at this post: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...942#post759942

It's probably worth re-stating here, though:

color shifting, vignettes, lomo, commercial color enhance, HDR, long exposure, artistic modes (sketch, fisheye lens, symmetry, etc), tilt-shift effect (one of the coolest effects for scenery!), etc.

Additionally, maybe add the ability to do scenic modes (where you can live-apply an image into a pre-made template scene, like Camera360 also does) and maybe something Camera360 doesn't do: plugins.

If you allow plugins, it might also be a good idea to permit closed-source binary plugin modules. As much as I rail against closed-source, we DO want to promote commercial possibilities if someone wants to pay for a licensed set of very fancy plugins to process live images from fcam (ala Photoshop plugins, for example).

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Ayle	2010-07-22 , 20:43
Posts: 202 \| Thanked: 60 times \| Joined on Sep 2009	#407

will it be exclusive to maemo or will all the work they have done be transferred to meego?

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	danramos	2010-07-22 , 20:45
	Posts: 4,672 \| Thanked: 5,455 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Springfield, MA, USA	#408

Originally Posted by Ayle

will it be exclusive to maemo or will all the work they have done be transferred to meego?

I had already asked that question but didn't get a straight-up answer.

On the other hand, maybe we don't need an answer. Since it was completely open-sourced, I'd assume it will.

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shadowjk	2010-07-22 , 21:06
Posts: 1,258 \| Thanked: 672 times \| Joined on Mar 2009	#409

Originally Posted by Deaconclgi

surprised if a developer spent 5 years of development with a target release on the N900 and not know that there is a N64 Emulator, NITDroid or fMMS as these are large projects that have recievedmedia attention beyond TMO. I would think that the people close to the project would have seen, heard, known about high profile N900 projects even if they have nothing to do with them and they don't affect their project development.

I consider myself a poweruser. I've been using Maemo since Chinook. All the major apps I needed and wanted got hamered out the first month or so of N900 selling. I'm very hapy with the N900, best device I've ever owned. I hack/develop stuff mainly for my own use in my free time because it's fun.

I soon stopped following talk.maemo.org, because it gets tiring to have a zillion threads where someone asks a question on page 1, 15 people say something offtopic or irrelevant on pages 1 and 2, some kind soul gives a proper and correct answer on page 3, and people fill pages 4-6 demanding an answer.

I'm only vaguely aware of titan's kernel. I vaguely recall someone saying it has ext4 from newer ernels. That would interest me, but I'd need a weekend's time to make use of it, so I've never looked closer. As N900 still is by far the best device I've ever had, I want to make sure it keeps working for many many years to come in case nobody comes out with anything that could be considered an upgrade. Thus I stay far away from the overcloking crap, I don't want to slowly make my device more and more unstable until i becomes unusable.
The current performance is good enough as is, though more ram would be nice. Nothing a new kernel would provide. I've been studying and examining long-term swap access patterns to better understand the 2-6 day slowdown effect, found a cause (which turns out to be the same things nokia/peopleatnokia said delayed pr1.2), and a workaround possibly.

In other words, I'm a happy poweruser, and feel no need to participate in the howling masses' running around at the metaphorical market square from one witch doctor's elixirs and placebos to the next, while people doing genuinely interesting stuff with potential to massively improve things are drowned out or even criticized and mocked for the good work they do.

And yes, I'm probably missing out on good stuff like titan's kernel, but I fee much better not taking part in the bigger hatefest.