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ericsson is offline ericsson
2010-12-12 , 15:19
Banned | Posts: 974 | Thanked: 622 times | Joined on Oct 2010
#281
Originally Posted by geohsia View Post
In your logic, a person should ALWAYS buy when a phone is brand new otherwise, they will only get support for a few months.
Then you have misunderstood me. Support != updates. The N900 with Pr 1.3 works well. More updates will probably make it even better, but for a mobile computer/smartphone the N900 is superb as it is. In other words, by purchasing a N900 now you will get exactly what Nokia promise, and more to be honest.

When you buy a phone when it is brand new, you are in it for the ride of updating the OS/software. Today the N900 is old and mature, but fully operational with very few bugs straight out of the box. But who knows for sure? Nokia is still updating the 5800, there may still be a couple of updates on the N900 as well, but it is not that likely because the N900 has only sold a small fraction of what the 5800 has, and Maemo is dead as far as further development go.
 
geohsia is offline geohsia
2010-12-12 , 15:32
Posts: 515 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#282
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
what made you expect that? that's just not reasonable. consumers constructing such unrealistic expectations is probably the issue here, not nokia's way of treating the device.
Here's another example, the N900 didn't support service codes when the phone first released. This was basic phone functionality available on hundreds of millions of basic cellphones (not even counting feature phones). Yet the N900 didn't have it. We knew it was Beta. Should we have expected that Nokia not fix that?

For that matter, what was the point of PR 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3? I mean when it released, it had EVERYTHING it claimed to have. By your logic they had no reason to do any work, by your logic they should have said, "the phone is now available, community you get to work, we're done! I never promised anything more"

Of course, that logic is wrong. It IS reasonable to expect Nokia to finish what they started.

I hate pulling out the iPhone example but people get all bent out of shape. The original iPhone ran the original iOS all the way up to 3.x. How many years was that? Is the most successful high-end smartphone platform has it all wrong? With the success of the iPhone (people literally hurting themselves to upgrade) they could have said, you know what, let's milk it. It's been out for a year, make them buy a new phone. Yet, they didn't and instead, kept upgrading their customers.

Now, if anyone could force consumers to upgrade, it's Apple. They have that type of lock on their users. Yet, they didn't. You can talk trash about Apple all day long about multitasking this and copy / paste that, but their attitude of "customer is #1" is evident in their support policy and what does Nokia do? They should be the ones to really reach out to high-end smartphone users and really try to make them happy, but apparently lots of you are happy with the Nokia attitude of "hey, let's screw them after 1 year, I mean, it's their fault they bought this, we did them a favor letting them give money to us."

What people don't get anymore is that consumers today flip phones in just a few short months and in the same vein they are even more demanding than ever.
 

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benny1967 is offline benny1967
2010-12-12 , 15:39
Posts: 3,790 | Thanked: 5,718 times | Joined on Mar 2006 @ Vienna, Austria
#283
Originally Posted by geohsia View Post
For that matter, what was the point of PR 1.1, 1.2 and 1.3? I mean when it released, it had EVERYTHING it claimed to have. By your logic they had no reason to do any work, by your logic they should have said, "the phone is now available, community you get to work, we're done! I never promised anything more"
the point of pr 1.1 to 1.3 was to bring maemo 5 to where nokia wanted it to be (like continually upgrading qt versions, delivering features that weren't ready at launch time) and fixing some major bugs on the way.
 

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geohsia is offline geohsia
2010-12-12 , 15:46
Posts: 515 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#284
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
Then you have misunderstood me. Support != updates.
Tell me how that works? Oh, we'll support it but we won't actually do anything to fix it. Yeah, you can call us and tell us all about it. We'll just tell you to flash it and if that doesn't fix it then well, you should have done better research.

Nokia doesn't send support patches to customers if they run into issues. Issues are fixed via updates. Taking the call != support. Support sometimes means fixing bugs and that is done via updates. You surely would't tell me that the N900 is bug free as of 1.3. Would you?

The N900 with Pr 1.3 works well. More updates will probably make it even better
Yeah, that's the point. That's the way it works nowadays. Companies release not fully ready product and the expectation from the consumer is that they'll keep fixing it. Sure, 1.3 is better than 1.2 which is better than 1.1 and 1.0. That doesn't mean they should stop working on Maemo.

but for a mobile computer/smartphone the N900 is superb as it is. In other words, by purchasing a N900 now you will get exactly what Nokia promise, and more to be honest.
YAWN.... Look, times have changed. Customers are a bit more demanding now. Firmware updates affect not just cellphones but is now a major part of a lot of products, from voice recorders to digital cameras.

When you buy a phone when it is brand new, you are in it for the ride of updating the OS/software. Today the N900 is old and mature, but fully operational with very few bugs straight out of the box. But who knows for sure? Nokia is still updating the 5800, there may still be a couple of updates on the N900 as well, but it is not that likely because the N900 has only sold a small fraction of what the 5800 has, and Maemo is dead as far as further development go.
Look, I don't expect them to support the N900 as long as the 5800. It would be great if they did. But they should at LEAST keep giving substantive updates until the N9 has released for a while. 1.3 was disappointing. I would expect a 1.3 type update to the N900 after the N9 is released. Not 6 months before it might see the light of day.
 

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geohsia is offline geohsia
2010-12-12 , 15:54
Posts: 515 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#285
Originally Posted by benny1967 View Post
the point of pr 1.1 to 1.3 was to bring maemo 5 to where nokia wanted it to be (like continually upgrading qt versions, delivering features that weren't ready at launch time) and fixing some major bugs on the way.
EXACTLY and it was entirely reasonable to expect these issues to get resolved. I think what is at odds is how much more needs to be done, but having these expectations is not unreasonable, does not mean there wasn't adequate research done and it doesn't mean we are not trying to be happy with the N900.
 

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ericsson is offline ericsson
2010-12-12 , 16:03
Banned | Posts: 974 | Thanked: 622 times | Joined on Oct 2010
#286
Originally Posted by geohsia View Post
You can talk trash about Apple all day long about multitasking this and copy / paste that, but their attitude of "customer is #1" is evident in their support policy and what does Nokia do? They should be the ones to really reach out to high-end smartphone users and really try to make them happy, but apparently lots of you are happy with the Nokia attitude of "hey, let's screw them after 1 year, I mean, it's their fault they bought this, we did them a favor letting them give money to us."

What people don't get anymore is that consumers today flip phones in just a few short months and in the same vein they are even more demanding than ever.
What you don't get is that you are all wrong. Apple do what Apple do for one simple reason, to make money. Nokia do what Nokia do for one simple reason, to make money. You can say that Apple is better at it than Nokia, and they probably are, but not that much better. Nokia has been unfortunate with the "top phone" N97, but the 5800 and N8 are both mega successes.

The 5800 is still sold and updated more than two years after the launch. It is the most sold touch screen phone in history, and Nokia makes lots and lots of money on it. The E95 was also updated several years after the launch. Every phone follows a curve. At some point the curve peaks and start to fall, then it reaches a point when the sales numbers do not sustain any further development. The N900 has reached that point (if it ever did sustain the development in the first place).

This is just facts of life. If you want long time support from Nokia, get a N8 or a C6-01 when it comes out for real. Don't expect long time development on "fringe devices" like the N900. Not even Apple would do that.
 
ericsson is offline ericsson
2010-12-12 , 16:18
Banned | Posts: 974 | Thanked: 622 times | Joined on Oct 2010
#287
Originally Posted by geohsia View Post
Tell me how that works?
By not adding features, but strictly fixing bugs that make the device not work as advertised. As of today there are no such bugs that I am aware of, but this doesn't mean there are no bugs or that the OS can't be improved. On the 5800 the OS is continuously improved and features are added, that's the difference.
 
geohsia is offline geohsia
2010-12-12 , 16:23
Posts: 515 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#288
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
What you don't get is that you are all wrong. Apple do what Apple do for one simple reason, to make money.
I never said they didn't do it to make money. Great customer service is good business. Look at Nordstrom.

This is just facts of life. If you want long time support from Nokia, get a N8 or a C6-01 when it comes out for real. Don't expect long time development on "fringe devices" like the N900. Not even Apple would do that.
Go back and actually read what I wrote. I am not expecting the N900 to have a long support life, years after its initial release. I am however expecting it to have substantial support at least until the N9 is released. You may think that its unreasonable but that's your opinion. Don't speak for the rest of us. You may not care about the community but I do and so do many others.
 

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geohsia is offline geohsia
2010-12-12 , 16:29
Posts: 515 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#289
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
By not adding features, but strictly fixing bugs that make the device not work as advertised. As of today there are no such bugs that I am aware of, but this doesn't mean there are no bugs or that the OS can't be improved. On the 5800 the OS is continuously improved and features are added, that's the difference.
There are many bugs that sit in the grey area. Not all bug fixes come in the form of performance and memory management. Sometimes that involves UI changes and sometimes fixing functionality means creating code that looks an awful lot like adding a feature. If you've done product development you'd know what I mean.

BTW, look through Fremantle bug list. Lots of bugs were pushed off to be fixed in Harmattan. These are bugs, not features. Why not bring those back in? Like I said, there's plenty of work to be done. PR 1.3 made it seem like there was nothing left. There is a whole bunch of bug fixes they can address without trying to add multi-touch or add Adobe Flash.

BTW, yes, not all phones are created equal.
 

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ericsson is offline ericsson
2010-12-12 , 16:52
Banned | Posts: 974 | Thanked: 622 times | Joined on Oct 2010
#290
Originally Posted by geohsia View Post
Lots of bugs were pushed off to be fixed in Harmattan. These are bugs, not features.
Yes, but they are not show stoppers for everyday use of the N900. Besides, you can always install MeeGo on it, even though it is premature for everyday use right now, but some day... You cannot do this with any other commercial device. The N900 is very special, and only, and I repeat - ONLY - Nokia has been so kind as to make such a device available to the public. So crying about stale Maemo development is really way out of line IMO. Maemo works just fine, it is stable as a rock when used in a normal way.

Anyway, Nokia is like God. History has shown they both operate in unpredictable ways, so you may still get an update or two of Maemo as well.
 
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