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ericsson is offline ericsson
2011-01-02 , 09:05
Banned | Posts: 974 | Thanked: 622 times | Joined on Oct 2010
#191
Originally Posted by Crashdamage View Post
@ericssson: 2 things...

1. You seem to think an OS is an OS, a 'platform' is a 'platform'. "The Bada OS in the Wave is exactly the same amount of work as a working MeeGo OS (a working kernel and a platform)." It's not so simple as that. They are not the same and so not the same amount of work.

2. You wonder why Nokia needs MeeGo since they have Symbian. Very simply, Symbian is not capable of keeping up with future demands of mobile hardware and software. MeeGo is.
1. When the end result is the same, the work getting there should be (and is) roughly the same. Discrepancies is due to bad execution, changing of plans, lack of commitment and so on.

2. Nonsense. The N8 has the most advanced HW in any mobile phone, the GPU alone is far above anything else out there right now. Symbian ran twin CPU already in the N95. Future demands for software is Qt as far as Nokia is concerned, and Symbian runs Qt better than Maemo/MeeGo right now. But again, Nokia's problem is getting the stuff out there, deliver the goodies. MeeGo has potential, but so far no one knows exactly what that potential is, other than some vague formulations about "future demands" which means nothing. I have been following Nokia and Symbian, Maemo, MeeGo. What I see is that Nokia is 100 times more committed to Symbian than to Maemo/MeeGo, and there are no indications this will change anytime soon. I'l will be one of the first to get a N9 (or whatever it will be called) when it comes, but not because I believe it will be a better phone than a roughly equivalently spec'ed Symbian device, because it won't.
 
ericsson is offline ericsson
2011-01-02 , 09:15
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#192
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
But have they come out to point out that the rumors are false? Saying you're dedicated to QT, Symbian and MeeGo isn't the same as saying that you're not doing Android and Windows Phone 7. That's the communication problem at hand. It's even carried on throughout most of the press.

But then, as NDI points out, they seem to have commitment issues. Didn't they also keep saying they were committed to Maemo too? How about those backports of Fremantle to the N8x0 for the community? How's that going? Before that, how about their support for Mer? How did that work out? Sometimes Nokia says one thing but does another.
Exactly. Samsung is 100% committed to Bada, but this is no hindrance for them to make (the best?) WP7 and Android phones, and lots of them. I don't think the Samsung way is better than the Nokia way or the opposite at the end of the day, but Samsung is like the Nike slogan; they "just do it". It is all about execution and commitment, and Nokia is walking in mud right now.
 
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ndi is offline ndi
2011-01-02 , 10:25
Posts: 2,050 | Thanked: 1,425 times | Joined on Dec 2009 @ Bucharest
#193
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
MeeGo has potential, but so far no one knows exactly what that potential is, other than some vague formulations about "future demands" which means nothing.
I am sick and tired of hearing about potential. Every cell has potential to evolve into a sentient species, but the odds are astronomical to the astronomers. Every child has potential, but half are below average.

Yes, below average. How I hate that. iOS is not going to go down in flames because Nokia tuned its failure and tried to wash the stench of boos and failure with fresh Intel blood. Android is pumping like nuts, it keeps growing momentum, because each app gets more apps and more apps means more users and more users means more developers. GOTO 1.

Microsoft ain't backing down. There's money to be made here and it has the strength to fight. And if there's anything I know MS can and will do is it will fight for cash with the determination of a drowning bobcat.

Who here will be displaced to make room for the mighty MeeStuff? Potential my foot.

There is no room on the board, people. We are stuck below average.

Potential. Potential is what you have when you don't have anything. 10 years from now this old OS has the potential to be embedded in microCPUs and swallowed to maintain our youth. It won't be and as we have seen every update from Nokia, major and minor, hope makes a poor substitute for code.

We may not have a large developer base, may not have user base, compatibility, but we're special. We have potential.

That's right, we're the ******ed child everyone keeps trying to sugarcoat the reality for. It's not DEFINITE that we won't get flash, browser patches, a new update or anything. Someone might swoop in and just fix it. Anyone might at any moment! Who knows? We have potential.
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Crashdamage is offline Crashdamage
2011-01-02 , 12:51
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#194
Originally Posted by ericsson View Post
1. When the end result is the same, the work getting there should be (and is) roughly the same.
The end result is NOT the same. MeeGo will be very different from Bada and the effort to get there is not directly comparable. Building a jet fighter is far more work than building an ultralight.

2. Nonsense. The N8 has the most advanced HW in any mobile phone, the GPU alone is far above anything else out there right now. Symbian ran twin CPU already in the N95.
That has virtually zero to do with anything being discussed.

Nokia's problem is getting the stuff out there, deliver the goodies.
Agreed. They've gotta get moving but stay committed to their plan. It IS a good plan.

MeeGo has potential, but so far no one knows exactly what that potential is, other than some vague formulations about "future demands" which means nothing.
You must not use Linux. Who knows what Unix/Linux can potentially do? So far it's been adaptable to pretty much anything. And who knows what 'future demands' will be? Can you guess beyond 'vague formulations'? Could be almost anything - that's why we'll need the most powerful, adaptable mobile OS available. Right now that's Unix/Linux/Maemo/MeeGo.

What I see is that Nokia is 100 times more committed to Symbian than to Maemo/MeeGo, and there are no indications this will change anytime soon.
They're committed to Symbian for now - they have to be, it's 99% of their smartphone sales. But there are plenty of indications that's changed. Maemo, MeeGo, rumors of WP7 or Android phones from Nokia - what will it take to convince you that Nokia can see Symbian's market share sinking like a rock and is committed to transitioning to something else more capable?

I'll will be one of the first to get a N9 (or whatever it will be called) when it comes, but not because I believe it will be a better phone than a roughly equivalently spec'ed Symbian device, because it won't.
How can you possibly know that when MeeGo is unfinished? You have more insider info than Eldar?
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attila77 is offline attila77
2011-01-02 , 13:40
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#195
Since this is turning into a MeeGo thread, let's get things straight (yes, it will be obvious but people seem to lose that out of sight in the heat of discussions).

Nokia has no *currently* shipping MeeGo devices

Consequence 1: You don't know how productized MeeGo looks like. All comparisons about how much time it takes to customize/rewrite/augment/Ovify/productize/whatever are plain guesses.

Consequence 2: You will hear MeeGo is promising, exciting, etc, etc, but you won't hear 'MeeGo is the ****, everything else sucks' because that would Osbourne effect Symbian^3, which is actually pretty important in building momentum for a Qt-centered ecosystem like MeeGo's.

Consequence 3: The first wave of any new platform is the most expected one. You can launch a platform only once, so it will be timed carefully, and that's when you'll see the Nokia marketing big guns. People here are often in the enthusiast crowd, so they are listening at developer/OEM oriented communications (which normally preceed consumer ones, especially in as open projects as MeeGo is) and confuse that with the corporate device marketing that they are used to.

The bottom line is - MeeGo devices need to ship, and they need to ship right, until then this type of MeeGo and armchair analyst talk is bikeshedding, maybe even worse - it's like trying to figure out how flying feels like by looking at airplane blueprints and engineer chatter.
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ericsson is offline ericsson
2011-01-02 , 14:40
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#196
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
The bottom line is - MeeGo devices need to ship, and they need to ship right, until then this type of MeeGo and armchair analyst talk is bikeshedding, maybe even worse - it's like trying to figure out how flying feels like by looking at airplane blueprints and engineer chatter.
He he. I think very few here disagree. We are all armchair analysts, but this doesn't mean that we shouldn't discuss things simply for the reason that we may not know what we are talking about. Hell, "real" analysts don't know the hell what they are talking about most of the time, so come on, lighten up

Afterall, we are the users, and most of us are in the first wave of users of new mobile technology, sometimes years before it catches on through the general public. The N800 series (tabs), and general smartphones like Palm and early Symbian devices or WM devices. I think we know a lot of stuff and have large common experience. What we do not know, is how the market will develop, but show me someone who knows, there aren't any, there are too many unknown.
 
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danramos is offline danramos
2011-01-03 , 03:10
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#197
Originally Posted by Stskeeps View Post
http://twitter.com/meegocom is a good source
Originally Posted by Stskeeps View Post
Of course. Can I ask what kind of marketing you'd like to see? and I personally think you should join up with the marketing guys [1] to suggest your ideas.

I suppose I don't need to say that it's important to keep MeeGo the platform and 'Nokia MeeGo' fairly seperate in terms of marketing. How does Android do marketing?

I don't believe we'll see MeeGo (not related to any devices, that is) commercials on the streets at least.

[1] http://wiki.meego.com/Marketing/Media_Team
Pointing out that TWITTER or a WIKI is your marketing, is like your employer announcing, "The new company health plan is Google." It's lazy marketing and a poor substitute for actual marketing. Marketing is defined as selling your brand TO THE MARKET--the MARKET... hence marketing. Twitter and Wiki's are for people who know what they're looking for. Lazy. Damned lazy and stupid. I can't believe you even attempted to cite that as MeeGo's attempt at marketing.

Even before it was truly ready for prime-time, Android had and still is marketed HEAVILY online, on television and all over the place by all of the vendors and carriers who've adopted the operating system and promote the quality of the operating system by showing that Android can DO things. (i.e. Verizon's "Droid Does" ads are an excellent example.) How have Intel and Nokia promoted MeeGo? What you provided was an appalling citation of marketing effort and I insist that you provide us with evidence of something compelling that actually introduces MeeGo to the market.

Also--and more importantly, weren't we actually talking about how Nokia hasn't communicated any sort of denial that they're going to do WP7 or Android?
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ndi is offline ndi
2011-01-03 , 10:33
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#198
Originally Posted by attila77 View Post
The bottom line is - MeeGo devices need to ship, and they need to ship right, until then this type of MeeGo and armchair analyst talk is bikeshedding, maybe even worse - it's like trying to figure out how flying feels like by looking at airplane blueprints and engineer chatter.
How it feels like is important for some but how many buy Android because how it feels? And how many buy the marketing? How many buy the company? How many buy what is being actively pushed? I have 2 Maemo and 3 Androids in my close family. Only 1 of us knows what an OS is. Heck, only 2 of us chose the manufacturer, the rest just ogle them in a magazine, pick the good looking one and check features like "has Facebook".

I know they are not like you, but they are like everybody else. How many have bought iPhone but don't know what and iOS is?

I remember when iPhone 2 and 3 were out, I saw people everywhere trying to send contacts via bluetooth and looking annoyed.

Oh and, another cheap stab: on the box of my fiancee phone and in the about box I can plainly read Froyo 2.2, upgradeable (to 2.3, depending on where you look). Cool, huh?
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attila77 is offline attila77
2011-01-04 , 01:52
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#199
Originally Posted by danramos View Post
Also--and more importantly, weren't we actually talking about how Nokia hasn't communicated any sort of denial that they're going to do WP7 or Android?
Well, anyone who bothered to follow Nokia communication could have read 'no Android', well, at least half a dozen times from CEO/VP level guys in the past couple of months. The WP7 rumor is from Eldar so based on past records, it has good chances of being ignored completely.

Originally Posted by ndi View Post
How it feels like is important for some but how many buy Android because how it feels?
What I'm saying is that you did not hear complaints Android this-Android that in 2007, as there were no Android devices out there. When you want to appeal on this feeling thing without having actual products out there, that's plain old hype.
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vkv.raju is offline vkv.raju
2011-01-04 , 02:03
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#200
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Not from an American blog? Then it means it's true!

I kid. I kid.
But probably an inspired one
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