Theory 1: only 30% of the cost of the N900 is "real" cost - Page 13 - maemo.org

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	Texrat	2009-12-11 , 20:01
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#121

Originally Posted by OrangeBox

"Are you really questioning the conventional thinking of 99% economists that a bigger company has a bigger market cap? It is fact. Do your research.

I've never seen that many economists agree on a single item. Usually they do good to reach 50%-- and that tends to be 2 polar camps ("the economy is great!" "the economy sucks!").

Sooo... anything to cite supporting that number?

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Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
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vins	2009-12-11 , 20:12
Posts: 50 \| Thanked: 8 times \| Joined on Nov 2009	#122

thx,texrat.but i dont think it'd be good to reply. Otherwise i'd got kicked out from this forum due to participating in flame war. Heheh

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OrangeBox	2009-12-11 , 20:19
Banned \| Posts: 291 \| Thanked: 42 times \| Joined on Dec 2009	#123

"I've never seen that many economists agree on a single item. Usually they do good to reach 50%-- and that tends to be 2 polar camps ("the economy is great!" "the economy sucks!")."

And then again, your point is? Have you or the other guy put forth a better definition of what indicates the size of a company better than market cap?

If you're looking for ultimate truth, you'll never find it. Go, check your previous posts, I'm pretty sure that you can take them apart word by word, applying formal logic to it and coming to the conclusion that the content is, well, like this [...] <-- (empty box)

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OrangeBox	2009-12-11 , 20:21
Banned \| Posts: 291 \| Thanked: 42 times \| Joined on Dec 2009	#124

"thx,texrat."

Wow, and you clicked on the Thanks! link as well. This is how you forge alliances. Great. I've noticed this a long time ago, that to be famous on a forum like this all you need is to have two friends and you can circle-than each other. Congrats, you've made star!!!

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	Texrat	2009-12-11 , 20:24
	Posts: 11,700 \| Thanked: 10,045 times \| Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA	#125

Ladies and gentlemen, I think we have an excellent candidate for Best Unintended Irony of the day. Make that candidates.

__________________
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Different <> Wrong | Listen - Judgment = Progress | People + Trust = Success
My personal site: http://texrat.net

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vins	2009-12-11 , 20:29
Posts: 50 \| Thanked: 8 times \| Joined on Nov 2009	#126

well,people thanked me.and i should do the same.that's what i thought.anyway,i'm out.did u read me?you really get into this,eh?hehehe

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geneven	2009-12-11 , 20:32
Posts: 5,795 \| Thanked: 3,151 times \| Joined on Feb 2007 @ Agoura Hills Calif	#127

Originally Posted by christexaport

geneven, you may find my comments dumb or whatever, but that guy came in here on various threads talking trash, spewing lies and misinformation, and got doused. I finally got him to shut up, and others to realize he knew little about what he was saying. He can run his game elsewhere, but I'm gonna check your game when I run up on cats like that. That goes for all of the disruptive haters and trolls around here. Come armed, because I'm waiting to put all soundbite chanters and iFools in their place. This ain't GigaOm or BGR, we're Maemo.org. I deprogram zombies. So watch what you say, and be ready to get your card pulled.

I'm Chris, and I, too, love arguing on the internet. Gotta go see who else is wrong... LOL

I agree with your main points so I'm not afraid of arguing with you. I just think your dumb comments are dumb.

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gtessier00	2009-12-12 , 00:08
Posts: 257 \| Thanked: 51 times \| Joined on Dec 2009	#128

Originally Posted by texaslabrat

btw, if you feel that the N900 (or other smartphone that you mentioned) is unfairly priced, feel free to order the parts from the various suppliers and build your own....or stick with whatever you have now. As far as I know, Nokia is not in the habit of putting guns to people's heads to force them to buy their products

LOLLL build your own N900... A do-it-yourself kit

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	eyn	2009-12-12 , 01:16
	Posts: 14 \| Thanked: 5 times \| Joined on Dec 2009 @ Denver, CO USA	#129

Originally Posted by OrangeBox

Let me explain...If we take an N900 with a hypothetical $500 price and compare the hardware internals of an identically priced laptop, it is clear that the N900 should cost about $150-200.

And no, I don't believe that the 3.5 inch touch screen costs more than a 17 inch non-touch, or a 32GB flash costs more than a 500GB HD, or Maemo with Nokia customizations costs more than Windows 7, or the GSM/HSPA radio costs more than 802.11n. If you follow this line of reasoning you come to the conclusion that the N900 (and the iPhone and the BB and the Droid and all other smart phones) are a total rip-off price-wise.

Any counter arguments?

You might be right about the real cost of manufacturing N900 but you are way off base comparing the price to computer components...

a 17th LCD screen can never be compared to the touch displays in a Mobile phone... these screen are built with enormous power and heat restriction

And regarding the processor, RAM and graphic chips, the ARM cortex A8 processor is a remarkable feet. Imagine all these (Radio, ROM, RAM, Processor and the graphic chip) in a dye no bigger than your finger nail... again these have huge power and heat restriction...

Its basically pointless thinking this way.

Last edited by eyn; 2009-12-12 at 02:00.

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Nom	2009-12-12 , 17:10
Posts: 6 \| Thanked: 13 times \| Joined on Dec 2009	#130

Originally Posted by OrangeBox

"what about moore's law and market cap as the fact? that still prove you wrong. dont get away with that"

Are you really questioning the conventional thinking of 99% economists that a bigger company has a bigger market cap? It is fact. Do your research.

Wrto Moore's law: yes, more transistor means more speed. Simple as that ever since the multicore architecture came about.

Originally Posted by OrangeBox

"can you cite where do you get the "conventional thinking of 99% economists"?"

Sure, here you go:
"Market capitalization/capitalisation (often market cap) is a measurement of the size of a business enterprise (corporation)"

Source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Market_capitalization

"The total dollar market value of all of a company's outstanding shares. Market capitalization is calculated by multiplying a company's shares outstanding by the current market price of one share. The investment community uses this figure to determining a company's size, as opposed to sales or total asset figures."

Source: http://www.investopedia.com/terms/m/...talization.asp

You want more?

Originally Posted by OrangeBox

Investors are people who have their money on the line. I doubt that there'd be a more reliable definition of market cap than what the investor community offers.

Anyways, your point was? Did you manage to convince yourself that my use of market cap is a "factual error"? If so, congrats. Next time I'll ask you which shares to buy or sell.

Please also, cite 2 references of your own as to where you draw your definition of market cap. That'd put the debate on equal footing. You haven't actually offered anything yet.

Check out this one as well: http://news.morningstar.com/classroo...&page=3&CN=COM

Hope you've heard about Morningstar.

I have to take a bit of issue with the above as market cap really is not the only metric available about company size and only used in the stock market (and not really used out side of it).

You have indeed correctly quoted what the market cap is within the stock market and the only thing it tells us about a company is the total value of its stocks nothing else.

Here is an example of a size gauge that is relevant also outside the stock market (ie. the real world):

The size of an enterprise can be determined by different factors. For legal purposes, the European Union (EU) adopts a classification of enterprise size based on the numbers of employees, company turnover and the company balance sheet. For statistical purposes, either the numbers of workers employed or the level of turnover, generally determines the size of an enterprise or business.

The US government defines size quite similarly, but the number of employees is the most defining factor for them.

Employees Nokia ~125k (2008), Apple ~32k (2008) and ~34k (2009)
Turnover (net sales) Nokia ~70B$ (2008), Apple ~32.5B$ (2008) and ~36.5B$ (2009).
Balance sheets are a bit long to cite in full so the relevant link to Nokia (2008) and Apple (2009). The numbers above can be found from these as well.