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2013-08-05
, 14:48
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#1632
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Originally Posted by Dave999
I'll up the ante... $52 dollars for your silence.
I have a point. You just made it! I'm right again
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2013-08-05
, 15:14
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Posts: 7,075 |
Thanked: 9,073 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
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#1633
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Originally Posted by gerbick
These Americans...Always waving borrowed money!
I'll up the ante... $52 dollars for your silence.
But, only for you. I'll be quiet in this thread for $53.
After all, I started this thread before people derailed it
__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Last edited by Dave999; 2013-08-05 at 15:44.
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2013-08-05
, 15:34
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Posts: 131 |
Thanked: 62 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#1634
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@Gerbick
"a cellphone is not a desktop replacement" for your purposes maybe so.
My point is very clear, for "A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE IT IS" and I wager many more than your specific professional uses.
rgds
ps. I had forgotten photoshop runs on Mac.
pps. I qualified above saying both smartphone and tablet not cellphone.
Last edited by uTMY; 2013-08-05 at 15:37.
"a cellphone is not a desktop replacement" for your purposes maybe so.
My point is very clear, for "A LOT OF OTHER PEOPLE IT IS" and I wager many more than your specific professional uses.
rgds
ps. I had forgotten photoshop runs on Mac.
pps. I qualified above saying both smartphone and tablet not cellphone.
Last edited by uTMY; 2013-08-05 at 15:37.
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2013-08-05
, 15:36
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#1635
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Originally Posted by uTMY
Symbian was dead man walking, they were giving Symbian phones away across Third World to keep up the numbers. I think they tried with Maemo, and Harmattan, but something was wrong with the leadership. Maemo 5 was the best product because it evolved from 700 devices, but for some reason it took sooo long to release N9, and still sooo imperfect. And this is all prior to Elop. Clearly leadership was not hungry enough to throw Symbian under the bus earlier and focus on a better platform. By the time Elop got to Nokia the OS camps were well delineated. And there are several posts from ex-maemo employees documenting the leadership issues that killed development of more open platforms.
@Lumiaman
Actually I agree with Switch, dead men walking simply don't outsell competitors.
However it was also clear that others like Apple and newcomer Android were progressing.
If Nokia had really wanted to distinguish itself it should have created a fully open stack to compete with Android and then built cross development tooling and frameworks to bring over the Symbian developers in a graceful migration.
Burning Symbian over night and then just expecting everyone to follow Windows like sheeples was just plain madness, no one wants Windows on their phones after 2 decades of Windows on their desktops except a small minority.
As I already said though that strategy has been and gone, Nokias only chance now is to create 100% fully open hardware and hope the world will forgive their recent utter disaster and that others will be willing and able to create new and viable phones such as Jolla, FirefoxOS, Android, YukBuntu etc.
ie, let the market decide what it wants rather than trying to forcefeed Windows onto the masses.
rgds
Vast majority of people dont care if system is open or closed. They care how well it works. Although Android powers huge amount of devices, all I see around me are iphones and few lower end Androids. at least in the usa, most higher end users, use apple, with some android penetration but most of it at the lower end, and that is why the android numbers (just like Symbian in the past) look inflated. Nonetheless, whether open will win over closed system, is a point of semantics. Its amazing that Apple can produce a single phone a year and beat up on everyone. It tells you that people value quality and performance. I am curious what will happen when apple releases budget iphones....
In this forum people want open device so they can tinker. Great. 99.99999% of the people want it to just work, and that is what sells. n9 and N900 didnt work well. N8 was the biggest flop. All of this was prior to Elop. He could have gone to bed with Google, and it would have been me too. He went with WP8, a lesser me too. I wish they continued on their own OS, but I think he chose to focus on one thing and do it well. Maybe he should have focused on Meego, maybe he should have focused on something else. Maybe he just didnt trust the programming culture at NOKIA to trust them with software solutions (and they certainly didnt make it easy with N900 and N8 and N9).
I built a house out of steel reinforced concrete that can withstand 300 mph winds. The buyers could care less what was in the walls. All they cared was about the colors. There you go.
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2013-08-05
, 15:43
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Posts: 131 |
Thanked: 62 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#1636
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@Lumiaman
Maemo is sufficiently CLOSED in enough parts that 3rd parties couldn't use it on other devices and make it their own, Hence little to no adoption.
Android "Source Code Available for Android 4.3
Android is an open-source software stack for a wide array of mobile devices with different form factors. .... We wanted to make sure there was no central point of failure so no industry player can restrict or control the innovations of any other. That's why we created Android and made its source code open." Hence large scale adoption.
obvious.
Not a failure of management or of the technology, just a fundamental missunderstanding of why OPEN is winning.
rgds
ps. it's "couldn't" care less! ... anything else is as upside down as the rest of your ideas.
Last edited by uTMY; 2013-08-05 at 15:48.
Maemo is sufficiently CLOSED in enough parts that 3rd parties couldn't use it on other devices and make it their own, Hence little to no adoption.
Android "Source Code Available for Android 4.3
Android is an open-source software stack for a wide array of mobile devices with different form factors. .... We wanted to make sure there was no central point of failure so no industry player can restrict or control the innovations of any other. That's why we created Android and made its source code open." Hence large scale adoption.
obvious.
Not a failure of management or of the technology, just a fundamental missunderstanding of why OPEN is winning.
rgds
ps. it's "couldn't" care less! ... anything else is as upside down as the rest of your ideas.
Last edited by uTMY; 2013-08-05 at 15:48.
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2013-08-05
, 17:23
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Posts: 7,075 |
Thanked: 9,073 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
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#1637
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What is an high end user? LOL
"most higher end users, use apple"
Haha epic sentence. Thanks for that Mr cluelessness.
Last edited by Dave999; 2013-08-05 at 17:29.
"most higher end users, use apple"
Haha epic sentence. Thanks for that Mr cluelessness.
__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Last edited by Dave999; 2013-08-05 at 17:29.
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2013-08-05
, 19:48
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Posts: 207 |
Thanked: 552 times |
Joined on Jul 2011
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#1638
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Originally Posted by Lumiaman
And yet in Q4 2010 NOKIA's gross margin was 29.2% compared with 24.4% last quarter.
they were giving Symbian phones away across Third World to keep up the numbers.
Here's another one for you:
In Q4 2010 NOKIA's ASP was EUR 156, last quarter it was EUR 157. Despite making hugely more desirable hardware now than then even NOKIA's ASP hasn't increased in real terms.
Plus this:
In Q4 2010 NOKIA sold 28.3 million smartphones, last quarter it was 7.4 million.
(and that's in a time period where the overall market has more than doubled in size)
And just for good measure:
In Q4 2010 NOKIA made an operating profit of EUR 884million, that compares to an operating loss of EUR 115 last quarter.
Originally Posted by Lumiaman
You always see what you want to see, you always believe what you want to believe.
Although Android powers huge amount of devices, all I see around me are iphones and few lower end Androids. at least in the usa, most higher end users, use apple, with some android penetration but most of it at the lower end, and that is why the android numbers (just like Symbian in the past) look inflated.
- Tygers of Pan Tang
Originally Posted by Lumiaman
There's a real possibility it will simply canibalise their sales of the high glamour iPhones just as the iPad mini has done to the iPad (iPad mini hasn't stopped Android overtaking iOS in the tablet market too).
I am curious what will happen when apple releases budget iphones....
Originally Posted by Lumiaman
In Q4 2010 NOKIA sold 5 million Symbian^3 devices, if my memory serves me correctly that could only have been the N8 (which wasn't even released until the October). Any Lumia models selling that well yet?
N8 was the biggest flop.
Originally Posted by Lumiaman
He couldn't, his puppet master wouldn't allow it.
All of this was prior to Elop. He could have gone to bed with Google
Originally Posted by Lumiaman
Oh, FFS
You sound like a Brit still dreaming if empires.
This pretty well sums up how I feel about my country.
Last edited by switch-hitter; 2013-08-05 at 21:07. Reason: Added link to NMA song
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2013-08-05
, 19:54
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Posts: 207 |
Thanked: 552 times |
Joined on Jul 2011
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#1639
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Originally Posted by Dave999
What's the difference between a Citroen and a giraffe?
What is an high end user? LOL
"most higher end users, use apple"
Haha epic sentence. Thanks for that Mr cluelessness.
One's got hydraulics the other's got high ...
Maybe 'higher end users' are giraffe shagg3rs?
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2013-08-05
, 23:26
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#1640
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Originally Posted by switch-hitter
Let me remind you something that your memory doesnt serve you well. NOKIA board hired Elop because they clearly saw that Symbain was dead man walking. If Symbian was so great, how come NO ONE licenses it now, and how come in 2009, Samsung announced that they dropping Symbian, followed by a whole slew of other manufacturers that they are dropping the great Symbian platform by the fall of 2010?????
And yet in Q4 2010 NOKIA's gross margin was 29.2% compared with 24.4% last quarter.
Here's another one for you:
In Q4 2010 NOKIA's ASP was EUR 156, last quarter it was EUR 157. Despite making hugely more desirable hardware now than then even NOKIA's ASP hasn't increased in real terms.
Plus this:
In Q4 2010 NOKIA sold 28.3 million smartphones, last quarter it was 7.4 million.
(and that's in a time period where the overall market has more than doubled in size)
And just for good measure:
In Q4 2010 NOKIA made an operating profit of EUR 884million, that compares to an operating loss of EUR 115 last quarter.
You always see what you want to see, you always believe what you want to believe.
- Tygers of Pan Tang
There's a real possibility it will simply canibalise their sales of the high glamour iPhones just as the iPad mini has done to the iPad (iPad mini hasn't stopped Android overtaking iOS in the tablet market too).
In Q4 2010 NOKIA sold 5 million Symbian^3 devices, if my memory serves me correctly that could only have been the N8 (which wasn't even released until the October). Any Lumia models selling that well yet?
He couldn't, his puppet master wouldn't allow it.
Oh, FFS
This pretty well sums up how I feel about my country.
The sign of great companies is when they notice the need for change long before it becomes catastrophic. NOKIA leadership didnt plan well, didnt execute well, and were lulled by the numbers you quote above. Anyone using Symbian devices in 2009/2010 knew that this was inferior OS, waiting to fall dead. All pre-Elop.
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Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...