Wow this thead went toxic!

Everyone calm down, take a few deep breaths and imagine furry paws massaging your shoulders.

After a bit of reflection, I think what I'm seeing here is people arguing with each other from the same side. I think this comment was one of the most telling:

though I'd suggest there's sensitivity on both sides.

A couple of Thoughts to Ponder:

"You" doesn't necessarily mean you. I think people are taking things personally when they're not meant. (I think there's a lot of that in this thread.)

Internet communication is not actually a very good way of interacting on a personal level, brilliant though it may be for technical or business stuff.

With those thoughts in mind I look back at the things that have hurt me. The single post that has kept me away from Bugzilla (and given me an image of poor Andre as a big guy with a club!) was a one-liner that was almost certainly not aimed at me. The thing that has hurt me about brainstorm was an action aimed at Bugzilla's process, without a thought for whether it might impact on an individual. And while that maybe means that people are maybe not communicating clearly, it also means I am being too sensitive.

So I found myself reflecting on the way we group ourselves. There are lots of dividing lines - and I suspect sometimes we're not being clear which one we mean.

There are the ways I have noticed so far (there may well be others)

Long-time members and newcomers (the obvious one)

Devs/techs/artists and DDCs (Don't Do Code)

Mailing-list members and talk members

People for whom this is a business, people for whom this is an extremely committed hobby (who might actually be more invested than people for whom it's work), people for whom it's a new hobby and they're uncertain how committed they are yet and people for whom it's a bit of fun about a new toy they got for Christmas.

Because of the general tendency for the groups to roughly align, people are often using the wrong distinctions. Not all newcomers are non-developers. Not all long-time members are mailing list types. Not all DDCs are people for whom it's a new toy they got for Christmas.

You get the idea.

I think the result of this confusion is that the 'people-people' (oh yeah - there's another line - code/tech/business types and 'people' people) are feeling 'got at' when often it's not aimed at them.

Next time someone posts something that I find hurtful, I plan to do two things. One is to ask whether it was really aimed at me (it may have been!) and the other will be to remember that the poster is acting 100% out of what s/he perceives as the good of the community. Then I shall ask myself what I can learn from the post, and whether any of it does apply to me.

Before you take offense at something ask "Do they mean me?" and "Do they have a point?" We're all supposed to be on the same side here.

Of course, we could all just hold hands in the firelight and sing 'kumbaya' ('Someone's Tweeting Lord, kumbaya'... 'Someone's blogging Lord, kumbaya'... ) But that would probably kill the community. Totally.

*RevdKathy hands round chill pills (Benzodiazepine-free, additive-free, non-addictive) and repaints the sign over the door to highlight 'Community' in big sparkly letters*

Bugzuki...

I sure hope you aren't assuming I was saying the welcome thread was the end-all be-all...

Oh my, the picture on t.m.o. just got very very weird.

Anyway, whilst shaking my head trying to clear the image...

It should be clear to anyone that there are people here who truly care and are trying to make this place and the community work. Kudos to them all. That they get a bit involved in some discussions is not only understandable, but it's natural. Tex, you're a good bloke and your community spirit cannot be challenged. As far as I'm aware, no-one has done more to ensure a welcome to those who stop over here.

Well, maybe the bear girl

Anyway, all established communities have this problem. Witness any western country's discussion about immigration. It's not just t.m.o. Bear this in mind. People are people.

There are ways to improve. Certainly there is work to be done on the wiki. However, wikis are not terribly difficult to edit and you are free to do so. Perhaps even make yourself a little sandbox, copy the stuff across, and play there. When you think it's ready, tell the community and see what they think. It's what I did and for the most part it's a reasonable path. If you would like me to show you how, please ask. I will walk you through it. When I've done that, I'll put the walk-through up on the wiki (why in that order? Because I'll know I have it understandable by someone else)

Please bear in mind that sadly no-one ever learned to swim on dry land. But then again, most of us learned with someone at hand. I'm happy to be your water-wings, whoever you are.

I'm now thinking about the bugziki (hee hee) so if anyone wants to play with ideas, pm me.

My previous post on this thread suggested that elitism is not a bad thing. It isn't. Note that even the newly initiated (I hate the newbies term btw) are elite - they either have/had or are thinking of getting a Maemo device. This applies even if they hate it(!) Criticism of the device is strictly allowed.

Search first.

Newcomers are welcome. Honestly.

Texrat's 'jump in' is oft used and applies (see the swimming thing above). The only times I've ever seen anyone being negatively responded to over here was when they opened up with negativities. Positives are much better, even if they are critical. 'The N900 sucks' is negative. 'The N900 isn't working for me because of <x>, what are your thoughts, how can it be fixed' is potentially positive.

In any case, there is much to be lauded about this place. Everyone, please, keep it up and remember, conflict isn't necessarily bad.

Does this make any sense?

Hugs all round.

Beautiful. Thanks for the sanity smarshy.

HI guys,

Compared to most of the posters in this thread, I'm still definitely a 'n00b' but I just wanted to say from a both a personal and professional perspecitve (i'm the Community Manager for PUSH N900 comp from Nokia), that I've learnt an absolute ton of stuff from checking out this forum and think you guys are definitely a great source of info for a lot of Nokia devices.

I may not be the most regular of users, only posting/reading when I need to find something out or if I've got something I think you guys might be interested in (like all the new PUSH N900 Mod In The USA comp we've launched - which Texrat actually beat me to posting about here: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php...ight=PUSH+N900) but I always try and maintain a friendly approach regardless of how long a user's been a member of the community (on any forum) - I for one, have had a great reception from the Maemo community, both for the competition and personally.

So for that, I guess I just wanted to say thanks.

Posts discussing table problems in the wiki have been split out into their own thread to increase that issue's visibility. Please continue that discussion in the new thread. Thank you.

As Texrat has a tendency of doing pretty much all the time. As soon as I see him 'jump into a thread' I basically skip it as I know what is to come.

I'm guessing then I can just forget your vote when I run for council re-election.

Darn. I sure hope you're not the swing vote!

Just.......... wow.

This is so far off base I can't even come up with a sarcastic comment to poke fun...

Thank god Texrat has a good sense of humor...

Personally... I think his stats speak for themselves.

ETA: He helps far more people than he hurts - and you're right I guess in that he cares about every part of this place. I don't consider that a bad thing. But he's human, and takes things personally sometimes.. so sue him. But to imply he is somehow always negatively defensive shows an utter lack of knowledge of his history...