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RFS-81 |
2012-06-16
, 18:17
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Posts: 207 |
Thanked: 154 times |
Joined on Nov 2009
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#311
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As for Qt, doesn't nokia need it for S40?
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2012-06-16
, 18:21
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#312
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What Elop is doing is what the shareholders want him to do and that is scaling down a company to fit in with whoever takes them over and as we all know in this case it is Microsoft.
Nokia was geared for everything Microsoft does not need so it is only obvious that staff have to go because you do not need such a vast amount of staff to produce WP hardware.
Nokia is being trimmed down to suit the investment of Microsoft and it is all part of making sure Nokia does not go into the hands of receivers.
The whole thing has taken probably the best part of 2 years to come together and i would think a year of that was prior to Elop's appointment as CEO.
Nokia was geared for everything Microsoft does not need so it is only obvious that staff have to go because you do not need such a vast amount of staff to produce WP hardware.
Nokia is being trimmed down to suit the investment of Microsoft and it is all part of making sure Nokia does not go into the hands of receivers.
The whole thing has taken probably the best part of 2 years to come together and i would think a year of that was prior to Elop's appointment as CEO.
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2012-06-16
, 18:37
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Posts: 457 |
Thanked: 600 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#313
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^
You're assuming that microsoft and shareholders are in some kind of agreement that MS will actually pay much more per share than market value (I mean more than nokia could have been worth with another strategy).
You think such an agreement exists, and which shareholders are actually involved? Wouldn't that be illegal?
You're assuming that microsoft and shareholders are in some kind of agreement that MS will actually pay much more per share than market value (I mean more than nokia could have been worth with another strategy).
You think such an agreement exists, and which shareholders are actually involved? Wouldn't that be illegal?
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2012-06-16
, 18:47
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Posts: 1,313 |
Thanked: 2,978 times |
Joined on Jun 2011
@ Finland
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#314
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Originally Posted by Rugoz
Holy ****, I was actually pleasantly surprised. I thought Risto Siilasmaa is the only one who might have some technical knowledge to understand the stupidity of this Windows only strategy.
http://www.nokia.com/global/about-no...eet-the-board/
Look at the board, do those 50+ year old grandmas and grandpas look like meego fanboys to you?
But there's also Mårten Mickos since may 2012. This is the CEO of MySQL. He should know the idiocy of this plan.
__________________
My N9/N950 projects:
My N9/N950 projects:
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2012-06-16
, 18:52
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#315
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Originally Posted by Rugoz
It is not about what Microsoft will pay entirely it is about a companies existence.
^
You're assuming that microsoft and shareholders are in some kind of agreement that MS will actually pay much more per share than market value (I mean more than nokia could have been worth with another strategy).
You think such an agreement exists, and which shareholders are actually involved? Wouldn't that be illegal?
Nokia shares were going down long time ago and as no other major manufacturer were prepared to offer what she shareholders wanted it was obviously either a sell off or a takeover and it certainly looks like Microsoft were able to satisfy shareholders by looking at what is going on now don't it otherwise none of this would be happening.
All shareholders are involved because it would be the only way a sell off or a takeover can happen but it don't mean that all were in agreement or even if they were all present at the vote and proxy took place to get the end result but whatever has been agreed is all legal for sure because no one would want to fall foul of something like this would they.
We do not know or ever likely to know the financial details behind this but for sure it is all above board.
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2012-06-16
, 19:02
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Posts: 457 |
Thanked: 600 times |
Joined on Jan 2010
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#316
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You realize share prices are much lower than before the strategy change?
You assume that shareholders saw MS as the only long term savior for nokia, I find that hard to believe honestly.
Of course the situation now is totally different, so I wouldn't be surprised if nokia/MS would announce a "merger" monday. If that happens I'm sure that shareholders were actually not aware that this was the plan all along.
You assume that shareholders saw MS as the only long term savior for nokia, I find that hard to believe honestly.
Of course the situation now is totally different, so I wouldn't be surprised if nokia/MS would announce a "merger" monday. If that happens I'm sure that shareholders were actually not aware that this was the plan all along.
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2012-06-16
, 19:09
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Posts: 468 |
Thanked: 610 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
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#317
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
Calling Nokia "already finished in 2010" would be a big stretch. Nokia recognized it had a big problem executing the launch of new products because of the inability to deliver software in time.
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Elop is there for one reason only and that is the winding down of Nokia and it is so clear that by the September 21, 2010 Nokia was already finished (parden the pun) as a company and Elop has never had anything to do with any failures within Nokia, in fact he has done his job so good he will go down in history and his methods of winding down such a prominent company that was will be used for years !.
As a result Nokia would slowly lose more and more market-share because of outdated products.
Under Elop, Nokia concluded it could not fix the software development problems (in any timely fashion), so stopped most in-house software development and placed the bet that Microsoft could deliver a competitive product.
For Nokia, I hope this bet pays off. In the past Microsoft has had a lot of hits and misses when it comes to delivering new versions in time.
Currently we are very much in the transition phase. On the high-end Nokia is not doing well with three different "top of the line" products. The N9 has a superb convergence of hardware and software design, but is abandoned and no big ecosystem was ever created. The 808 pureview has very promising camera tech, but the rest of the hardware is the sametech from the N8 put on steroids. The Lumia 900 appears clunky, missing the charm of the N9 and is only interesting if you can get LTE coverage (So effectively very US orientated device)
That said, I think the low-end smartphone Lumia 610 is very promising. I think the hardware looks great and the software interface is very smooth. In my opinion it blows away any competitor in the same price-range in looks and smoothness.
So will the switch to Microsoft work out for Nokia?
We will know more when Nokia delivers its first real high-end Windows Phone device. If it is released within a couple of months of the next iPhone and is competitive in both hardware and software, than Nokia will have a real fighting chance. If not it is probably in an even worse situation than it would have been if it continued on the MeeGo/Symbian/Meltemi course.
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2012-06-16
, 19:26
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#318
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Originally Posted by Rugoz
I think many on here need to understand the difference and roles of "directors" and "shareholders/owners".
You realize share prices are much lower than before the strategy change?
You assume that shareholders saw MS as the only long term savior for nokia, I find that hard to believe honestly.
Of course the situation now is totally different, so I wouldn't be surprised if nokia/MS would announce a "merger" monday. If that happens I'm sure that shareholders were actually not aware that this was the plan all along.
Directors would not be able to make a merger with Microsoft without the approval of shareholders for obvious reasons.
In the past Nokia have made some really bad decisions so who are we to be in the minds of the owners of Nokia ? and as you said from your point of view you find it hard to believe but look what Nokia have done in the past, some pretty hazardous decisions have been made to get them into the mess they got in to prior to all this so my guess is there was a majority that like this Microsoft merger or takeover because of past history of one of the richest companies that exist so i don't think it is a bad idea from a logistical business sense when you look at the history of Microsoft.
The survival of Nokia is well under way and as for shares, what has happened is normal considering Nokia were going down big time so we just have to wait and see what comes of all this because if successful you will for sure see shares jumping in value.
I can assure you 100% ALL shareholders were and are very much aware of what is going on with Microsoft because it would not only be illegal but crazy for any of this to be happening.
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2012-06-16
, 19:37
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Banned |
Posts: 3,412 |
Thanked: 1,043 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
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#319
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Originally Posted by Bernard
The date i gave was the date Elop was actually appointed CEO and for the reasons that happened was spelling out the end of Nokia as they used to be because everyone inside Nokia knew it was coming to an abrupt end if something as drastic as this did not happen.
Calling Nokia "already finished in 2010" would be a big stretch. Nokia recognized it had a big problem executing the launch of new products because of the inability to deliver software in time.
As a result Nokia would slowly lose more and more market-share because of outdated products.
Under Elop, Nokia concluded it could not fix the software development problems (in any timely fashion), so stopped most in-house software development and placed the bet that Microsoft could deliver a competitive product.
For Nokia, I hope this bet pays off. In the past Microsoft has had a lot of hits and misses when it comes to delivering new versions in time.
Currently we are very much in the transition phase. On the high-end Nokia is not doing well with three different "top of the line" products. The N9 has a superb convergence of hardware and software design, but is abandoned and no big ecosystem was ever created. The 808 pureview has very promising camera tech, but the rest of the hardware is the sametech from the N8 put on steroids. The Lumia 900 appears clunky, missing the charm of the N9 and is only interesting if you can get LTE coverage (So effectively very US orientated device)
That said, I think the low-end smartphone Lumia 610 is very promising. I think the hardware looks great and the software interface is very smooth. In my opinion it blows away any competitor in the same price-range in looks and smoothness.
So will the switch to Microsoft work out for Nokia?
We will know more when Nokia delivers its first real high-end Windows Phone device. If it is released within a couple of months of the next iPhone and is competitive in both hardware and software, than Nokia will have a real fighting chance. If not it is probably in an even worse situation than it would have been if it continued on the MeeGo/Symbian/Meltemi course.
Will it work out? your guess is as good as mine but i don't see Microsoft having anything to do with Maemo Meego or anything else Nokia had even in the pipeline because the goals are clearly set on WP and nothing else because Microsoft would not want any more competition than they can afford to happen.
If you remember the very first shock we got from Elop was the N9 news so i think we can forget anything but WP to be in the production line from here on.
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2012-06-16
, 20:06
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Posts: 468 |
Thanked: 610 times |
Joined on Jun 2006
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#320
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Originally Posted by abill_uk
Actually the "burning platform" memo articulated the problems very well, but the fear wasn't "an abrupt end", it was the fear of a slow death (steadily decreasing market share because of slow response to market changes).
The date i gave was the date Elop was actually appointed CEO and for the reasons that happened was spelling out the end of Nokia as they used to be because everyone inside Nokia knew it was coming to an abrupt end if something as drastic as this did not happen.
Will it work out? your guess is as good as mine but i don't see Microsoft having anything to do with Maemo Meego or anything else Nokia had even in the pipeline because the goals are clearly set on WP and nothing else because Microsoft would not want any more competition than they can afford to happen.
If you remember the very first shock we got from Elop was the N9 news so i think we can forget anything but WP to be in the production line from here on.
Also Nokia will continue to use Nokia OS (S40) on low-end phones in current production lines.
At the time Nokia could not see Windows phone in the real low-end market anytime soon, so trying to make low-end devices more competitive using a different OS based on linux (Meltemi), would seem a good strategy to investigate.
What changed? That isn't clear. Maybe there were delays in the development again, or the hardware requirements (and costs) increased or updates to S40 produced a similar user experience, without the costs of maintaining a whole new OS. In the past Nokia frequently made different groups inside the company compete against each other, maybe the S40 touch group won?
We don't know.
Or maybe microsoft recognised it currently just needs lots and lots of WP users and lowered license fees for low-end devices (they did the same for netbooks), making the development of an in-house low-end OS economically infeasible.
