Wayfinder won't fetch updates over Bluetooth phone connection ? (Fine with WiFi) - Page 4 - maemo.org

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alcam	2008-12-21 , 23:07
Posts: 19 \| Thanked: 1 time \| Joined on Oct 2008 @ cambridge, UK	#31

Originally Posted by gazza_d

sounds to me re-reading this thread that it's a issue with the internet service available from the phone.

That is where I started, with O2. They swear blind they do no traffic mangling.

Originally Posted by gazza_d

is the phone connection configured on the tablet with the wizard in the normal manner?

Tried under O2 monthly and Pasugo, slightly different settings from default u get. Tried many variants of settings as suggested by O2 bods - zilch. Web worked every time oddly enough!

Originally Posted by gazza_d

is internet traffic, email etc working through the connection?

Oh yes - 1st thing I did was to check that. Surfing always seemed fine.

Originally Posted by gazza_d

coul you post a portiion of the capture log

Caught a TCP dump as provided by manually using menus to tell Map to do a traffic update - no internet traffic until then of course. It does 9 sends and receives with chbnav101_102-lb.crescomhosting.fi.www of data and nothing more. A successful update via Wifi does around 28 interchanges.

I won't paste these in cos u can't decipher them without the protocol. Indeed some Wayfinder minion doing the analysis tried to say that they didn't include traffic data - when this was the thing that I did to provoke the traffic in the first place. It was shortly after this that they terminated active support for this problem!

So some data does go up and down. It is indeed different than that I logged from a successful Wifi update. But it was at a different time so it may well be different. Different traffic, different time. Who knows.

There seemed no way of accessing any Map internal logging - none they would admit to, so all you are left with is a red X icon and "Network error" in a dialog in the corner.

PS: peeps nice to hear some of u lucky b*******s do actually get this feature working! Until u said, I hadn't actually heard of anyone getting this to work so it is still useful. ta

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alcam	2008-12-21 , 23:40
Posts: 19 \| Thanked: 1 time \| Joined on Oct 2008 @ cambridge, UK	#32

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

BTW, from what I read Nokia Maps 2.0 (not for N8x0 but for S60) costs only 50 EUR...

Mmm u provoked me to go and look this up in detail. Trouble is

a) I'd need a new phone
b) in a car u end up trying to read an awfully small display - something the N810 is perfect for which is why I like tablets over phones for anything other than having a phone conversation!
c) the Drive & Walk UK option for Nokia maps is €210 over 3 years
d) traffic updates are another €60 over 3 years
e) the sw is thin client - the maps come over the air. Expensive air on UK contracts. I see u can prime the cache with Nokia Map Loader but I think there is still internet traffic going on even when u do - maybe just traffic updates like what I want my N810 to do. Those satellite views aren't gonna fit in an 8G phone are they!

So new phone + €270 every 3 years as compared to an N810 I already had and €99 over 3 years. A similar argument applies with TomToms - the traffic data is the decider here.

If my N810 could get traffic updates on the move then Wayfinder Map is a winner here. If they keep updating it to match newer features of TomToms and the like then within the limited market of N810 sales, it is great. But this is a small market compared to money to be made from Nokia Maps and Wayfinder's similar products on millions of mobiles. So I suspect development has been largely wound up since Navicore's takeover by Wayfinder last year.

The best we can hope for is their traffic servers continue to operate and they ship new versions of Map to match Maemo 4 patches - the latter they did with update 2.2.8.604 the other day of course.

Last edited by alcam; 2008-12-21 at 23:47.

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gazza_d	2008-12-21 , 23:49
Posts: 961 \| Thanked: 565 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ Tyneside, North East England	#33

have you a mobile broadband package on your phone, or are you just using the access which the phone browser uses? I have an old SE T610 with t-mobile, which has no specific internet acccess package, but will connect via web'n'walk, supposedly for the phones browser. I'll see what credit is on it and try to see if the updates work over that.

having said all that, from my experience up here in th enorth-east near newcastle, the traffic updates are not all that useful. Any alerts when using the navigation usually appear to late to do anytning sensible, If it reroutes, it tells you that it has done so, but not what the issue is. it usually warns of congestion when ther is none, and vice versa. Also there are some major roadworks on my commute, which have had a 3 mile diversion, as access round the roundabout has been restricted. The information from wayfinder has been crap, and does not reroute via the diversion. I don't have any comparable experience of the competitors traffice such as tomtom, although I prefer the app over the garmin i3 i used before I got wayfinder.

The other thing that really bugs me is the fact that the camera warnings (which seem to be frequently and accuratley updated) warn of cameras near the route on nighbouring roads, whereas it should only warn about the cams on the bloody road you are actually on! the classic example being the one one a road crossing the motorway about 1//4 mile away, but there is no junction with the motorway - utter madness!

sorry for going on!!

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gazza_d	2008-12-21 , 23:58
Posts: 961 \| Thanked: 565 times \| Joined on Jul 2007 @ Tyneside, North East England	#34

btw blackberry's navigation software is crap as well - recently got an 8800, and have been playing with the software. It puls the maps down over the network as well so only works where there is a signal, and there are a few places up here still where there is not even gprs.

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	allnameswereout	2008-12-22 , 01:00
	Posts: 3,397 \| Thanked: 1,212 times \| Joined on Jul 2008 @ Netherlands	#35

You make some good points.

As far as I saw it costed only 50 EUR though.

If one has already a data contract and don't mind some live data something such as Maemo Mapper / Qt Mapper / tangoGPS / ... might be a viable alternative.

Originally Posted by alcam

e) the sw is thin client - the maps come over the air. Expensive air on UK contracts. I see u can prime the cache with Nokia Map Loader but I think there is still internet traffic going on even when u do - maybe just traffic updates like what I want my N810 to do. Those satellite views aren't gonna fit in an 8G phone are they!

IMO its awesome Nokia provides both ways.

Haven't tried it yet, but the traffic should be similar to TomTom, Wayfinder, or any other application with maps preloaded.

The maps of Nokia Maps are of approx same size as the Wayfinder maps. I found the Nokia Map Loader a bit clunky, and its for Windows/Mac only, but it can download the maps before you. Of bigger countries like Germany and France you can even select provinces to download. For example, Berlin/Brandenburg is 16 MB while whole Germany is 260 MB (repeat: approx same as Wayfinder btw!).

The irony is that the traffic data (RDS) is send over air. If you have a N800 you might [hypotethically?] be able to catch it using the FM receiver? I'm not sure.

Maybe if it would be possible to output the Nokia Maps on the N8x0. Or I would like to use my phone's GPS on the N8x0. But that doesn't solve the problem either.

If my N810 could get traffic updates on the move then Wayfinder Map is a winner here. If they keep updating it to match newer features of TomToms and the like then within the limited market of N810 sales, it is great. But this is a small market compared to money to be made from Nokia Maps and Wayfinder's similar products on millions of mobiles. So I suspect development has been largely wound up since Navicore's takeover by Wayfinder last year.

Yep. My hope is Nokia port Nokia Maps to Maemo. Tbh they'd be stupid not to. Rumor is Vodafone is buying Wayfinder but the sale isn't finalized yet.

Its totally unclear what the changelog is for Map 2.2.8.604..

__________________
Goosfraba! All text written by allnameswereout is public domain unless stated otherwise. Thank you for sharing your output!

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alcam	2008-12-22 , 10:26
Posts: 19 \| Thanked: 1 time \| Joined on Oct 2008 @ cambridge, UK	#36

Originally Posted by gazza_d

have you a mobile broadband package on your phone, or are you just using the access which the phone browser uses?

No package, just bog standard Web access with no proxy in the way - Map is using port 80 hence final ".www" on log from above post.

Originally Posted by gazza_d

having said all that, from my experience up here in th enorth-east near newcastle, the traffic updates are not all that useful. Any alerts when using the navigation usually appear to late to do anytning sensible,

Yup like local radio traffic alerts - u always get them while stuck in the queue they are telling u about. But hope for longer trips it would be useful.

Originally Posted by gazza_d

If it reroutes, it tells you that it has done so, but not what the issue is. it usually warns of congestion when ther is none, and vice versa.

Sometimes I get details pop up or a warning marker on the right advance towards me.

Originally Posted by gazza_d

Also there are some major roadworks on my commute, which have had a 3 mile diversion, as access round the roundabout has been restricted. The information from wayfinder has been crap, and does not reroute via the diversion. I don't have any comparable experience of the competitors traffice such as tomtom, although I prefer the app over the garmin i3 i used before I got wayfinder.

We've got some bridge works in town and the whole road out to motorway is marked as congested so Map goes bonkers telling me to avoid. We have a fight for a while as I ignore its desperate pleading to take the next available U turn!

Originally Posted by gazza_d

The other thing that really bugs me is the fact that the camera warnings (which seem to be frequently and accurately updated) warn of cameras near the route on neighbouring roads, whereas it should only warn about the cams on the bloody road you are actually on! the classic example being the one one a road crossing the motorway about 1//4 mile away, but there is no junction with the motorway - utter madness!

Oh u should try the M25 - it sits their pinging its but off. So many u ignore them. And database is out of date with the new ones they add being the ones to catch u out.

The other thing I have noticed is that it is now warning about cameras set above the speed u are driving at. That used to work too. So this service is almost worthless feature as it stands.

My weirdest experience is when it could find no available route for a trip. I thought I'd broken it. But it turns out a traffic update had marked a whole stretch of road as closed. So it knew where I wanted to go but couldn't get me there after trying all ways to get there. Very funny - once I realized....

Last edited by alcam; 2008-12-22 at 11:15.

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alcam	2008-12-22 , 12:06
Posts: 19 \| Thanked: 1 time \| Joined on Oct 2008 @ cambridge, UK	#37

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

You make some good points.

As far as I saw it costed only 50 EUR though.

I looked at http://europe.nokia.com/explore-serv...s_and_coverage Netherlands and Drive&Walk licencse for Benelux is €70, while Traffic is €20 - over 12 months. So same as UK - though soon one £ won't but a ship's peanut in €s!

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

If one has already a data contract and don't mind some live data something such as Maemo Mapper / Qt Mapper / tangoGPS / ... might be a viable alternative.

But these are all mapping solutions - not routeing with voice as you would want in a car.

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

IMO its awesome Nokia provides both ways.

Haven't tried it yet, but the traffic should be similar to TomTom, Wayfinder, or any other application with maps preloaded.

It did look very similar to Wayfinder plus some city guides and those satellite views, which would be useful on foot half way up a hillside!

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

The maps of Nokia Maps are of approx same size as the Wayfinder maps. I found the Nokia Map Loader a bit clunky, and its for Windows/Mac only, but it can download the maps before you. Of bigger countries like Germany and France you can even select provinces to download. For example, Berlin/Brandenburg is 16 MB while whole Germany is 260 MB (repeat: approx same as Wayfinder btw!).

I wonder if it can route from one map to another - Wayfinder can't! Being an island with one dry route out thru a tunnel, it isn't such a big problem for us but I've heard it makes continental driving across map borders a pain on Wayfinder.

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

The irony is that the traffic data (RDS) is send over air. If you have a N800 you might [hypotethically?] be able to catch it using the FM receiver? I'm not sure.

I've heard that can be quite slow or even not at all. So I'd use TomTom's Internet traffic updates - which of course are not free.

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

Yep. My hope is Nokia port Nokia Maps to Maemo. Tbh they'd be stupid not to.

I wonder if they will dump Wayfinder in Maemo 5 and bundle just Nokia Maps instead. When the N810 was being planned Navicore was still an off shoot of Nokia before July 2007 purchase by Wayfinder. Wayfinder could always do an upgrade as any 3rd party app.

Originally Posted by allnameswereout

Rumor is Vodafone is buying Wayfinder but the sale isn't finalized yet.

Oh crap - I doubt Vodafone care about selling to a handful of N810 users when they've got n million mobile phone users to flog extra services to and squeeze more revenue! But it will give Wayfinder extra stability. As I've purchased 3y licence what guarantee do I get their traffic servers will still be working that long? Not mentioned in any info I got in exchange for money!

Originally Posted by allnameswereout