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2017-07-23
, 19:41
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Posts: 1,336 |
Thanked: 3,932 times |
Joined on Jul 2010
@ Brittany, France
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#62
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Yet I think Wolda got a point. I said the same it in an earlier post as well: if Android was acceptable (for me), I would already have bought a Moto keyboard and a Moto. The thing is I do want a hardware keyboard, badly, but not at the cost of being forced to use an OS I don't want to use. In the end I would just not use the phone and its holy keyboard.
The ergonomy of the Android UI (which is based on the same paradigms on all Android-based OSes, even open ones) and privacy issues with Google are not an acceptable trade-off for me. However, I do understand that what I am looking for does not exactly match the market, and same goes with several people on TMO I think, otherwise we would not be discussing a new device and its OS here. We would just go to the shop and buy what the market already designed for our needs. Chen's strategy of asking people what they think about the OS options clearly shows that he's aware that it will divide people and be critical to the success of the project, and to be honest it's good to see that he seeks feedback instead of deciding all alone, but I wouldn't want to be him when it will be time to finally decide (partly) based on this thread.
The question is simple: is this phone for the average Joe and can it compete with the big fish already ruling the lake, or is this phone going to be designed according to the weird and unusual preferences of the Joes that still populate TMO? The answer is not simple: both device would be very different, both come with huge risks, and none would be bad. But making a phone that would satisfy both groups and perform equally would be tricky (even with dual-boot, although I'd love to have dual-boot).
Last edited by Kabouik; 2017-07-23 at 20:50.
The ergonomy of the Android UI (which is based on the same paradigms on all Android-based OSes, even open ones) and privacy issues with Google are not an acceptable trade-off for me. However, I do understand that what I am looking for does not exactly match the market, and same goes with several people on TMO I think, otherwise we would not be discussing a new device and its OS here. We would just go to the shop and buy what the market already designed for our needs. Chen's strategy of asking people what they think about the OS options clearly shows that he's aware that it will divide people and be critical to the success of the project, and to be honest it's good to see that he seeks feedback instead of deciding all alone, but I wouldn't want to be him when it will be time to finally decide (partly) based on this thread.
The question is simple: is this phone for the average Joe and can it compete with the big fish already ruling the lake, or is this phone going to be designed according to the weird and unusual preferences of the Joes that still populate TMO? The answer is not simple: both device would be very different, both come with huge risks, and none would be bad. But making a phone that would satisfy both groups and perform equally would be tricky (even with dual-boot, although I'd love to have dual-boot).
Last edited by Kabouik; 2017-07-23 at 20:50.
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2017-07-23
, 19:42
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Posts: 654 |
Thanked: 2,368 times |
Joined on Jul 2014
@ UK
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#63
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Originally Posted by Dave999
I try to actually listen to the conversation so I can contribute meaningfully instead of rambling about scams
What makes you think that? Thinner, lighter Will cost.
Here you have it, straight from the horse's mouth:
Originally Posted by chenliangchen
So the expectation is that it will be thinner. It may also be lighter because the moto mod gubbins won't be present - or at least there should be less unnecessary weight (it might have more battery weight, as mentioned above).
@Kabouik:
I'm going back to China later this week to finalise the Moto keyboard Mod business. The moulding of the sliding frame plus the hinge indeed is a tough job but we are close to finish. By the time Moto Keyboard is shipping I will start kicking off Lauta-revival project.
With the all in one sliding keyboard, thickness can be greatly reduced (>7mm reduced from Moto Mods)
Rather than Pyra, I want to make a more general keyboard device for every-day use. A good looking product, and can last at least for a few years.
Planned:
- LTE Cat6 support (number of bands depend on the upfront cost. Likely to be 4 or 5 so there will be 2 versions)
- Full QWERTY support with the hinge that can lift the screen (Not exactly same as N950/Lauta but more like Touch Pro 2, you can change the angle)
- 5.0"+ screen. I know this will be a disappoint for some, but you can't find anything reliable and decent below this size, unless someone gives me 1M USD and I can develop a 4-inch decent solution myself...
- Part of the device will use metal, similar to the N950 - again I want everyone can proudly show the device unlike some chunky monsters...And the overall thickness will be controlled. Likely around 12mm. (To ensure a good sized removable battery)
- User can of course remove and replace the battery, when it dies
- Regarding OS - this requires some work and need to analyse the total cost. But I can promise bootloader won't be locked and won't only be AOSP. (Not even considering pre-load with Google service)
- By JUL/AUG when I close the Moto Keyboard project and Youyota production line starts, I will reveal more design work and pictures...
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2017-07-23
, 19:43
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Posts: 764 |
Thanked: 2,889 times |
Joined on Jun 2014
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#64
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Originally Posted by locusf
Thanks for sharing that info, it's looking great and I really hope more people will join the project, as Nemo really is what Sailfish is probably never going to be: free. By my comment I only meant that, although you're working as hard as you can, at this point the suggestion to have Nemo as the default interface on a new device would be a mistake, because people would hold it to the same standards as they would the latest super expensive device from Samsung, Apple, or whatever, and in the end they would only be disappointed. Looking at the backlash Sailfish/Jolla gets because they don't have all the cool things in Android or iOS (admittedly, some of it is deserved), I can only imagine the endless negativity around a Nemo device.
So, about Nemo,
https://twitter.com/SamZaNemesis/sta...42950219071492
https://twitter.com/SamZaNemesis/sta...61367778942976
https://twitter.com/locusf/status/859023060145512449
We're currently in progress of overhauling the development away from being dependent on mer middleware development on qt side, which is done by jolla and using upstream instead.
This is taking time since it means we're going to have rely on something different to using mer tools, currently open embedded for building our images. OE/Yocto has much larger adaptation base and all of our software (meaning nemo community) has easy potential to be built on that.
We're not dead, far from it, things like these take time but there is potential far from what Sailfish could ever achieve, since all of our apps are open, not just the middleware.
Daily use has problems, certainly. We do lack developers to completely overhaul the software stack, no doubt. This doesn't mean we're dead. More good things are coming.
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2017-07-23
, 19:55
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Posts: 38 |
Thanked: 202 times |
Joined on Sep 2015
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#65
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To be commercially successfull it needs some flavour of android.
It might still be interesting to keep foucs on providing well documented hardware. Gta04 for example has documentation for all interfaces except UMTS modem, the WiFi module and the GPS module. If it's well documented standard linux (Debian) could easily later by the community be provided.
It for me looks like Linux can run on Qualcomm SOC (not sure exactly how well it does, e.g. with current kernels).
Is it possible to use a (second?) modem Gemalto PLS-8? It on the one hand would raise the price, but might be better supported by Linux.
It might still be interesting to keep foucs on providing well documented hardware. Gta04 for example has documentation for all interfaces except UMTS modem, the WiFi module and the GPS module. If it's well documented standard linux (Debian) could easily later by the community be provided.
It for me looks like Linux can run on Qualcomm SOC (not sure exactly how well it does, e.g. with current kernels).
Is it possible to use a (second?) modem Gemalto PLS-8? It on the one hand would raise the price, but might be better supported by Linux.
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2017-07-23
, 19:57
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Posts: 7,075 |
Thanked: 9,073 times |
Joined on Oct 2009
@ Moon! It's not the East or the West side... it's the Dark Side
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#66
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Originally Posted by Feathers McGraw
The keyboard might be thinner yes, but the phone?
I try to actually listen to the conversation so I can contribute meaningfully instead of rambling about scams
Here you have it, straight from the horse's mouth:
So the expectation is that it will be thinner. It may also be lighter because the moto mod gubbins won't be present - or at least there should be less unnecessary weight (it might have more battery weight, as mentioned above).
What he wrote Sounds good but but to make a thin phone it Will be Extreamly expensive unless we find a LOTs of backers. I guess he have to design from scratch. Have you heard anything about that?
Scams you say? You mean jolla? Well they be starting the refund in july they say
good luck with that!
__________________
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...
Last edited by Dave999; 2017-07-23 at 20:14.
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2017-07-23
, 21:35
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Posts: 114 |
Thanked: 409 times |
Joined on Jun 2011
@ Germany
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#67
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With official SFOS (incl. Android support & Exchange) and decent hardware it would be an insta-buy for my GF and me.
Plain and simple.
Plain and simple.
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2017-07-24
, 02:14
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Posts: n/a |
Thanked: 0 times |
Joined on
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#68
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Originally Posted by ejjoman
I would agree; however Android 4.4 support in the day and age of Android 7.1 leaves a lot to be desired.
With official SFOS (incl. Android support & Exchange) and decent hardware it would be an insta-buy for my GF and me.
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2017-07-24
, 04:59
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Posts: 1,478 |
Thanked: 9,871 times |
Joined on Dec 2008
@ Shanghai / London
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#69
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Thanks all for the ideas and suggestions. Some quick feedback:
- What's the difference with Moto Z + Keyboard with this device?
At least 7mm thinner
Much better feelings. Top thinner + Bottom thicker instead of other way round.
The advantage of Moto Z is you can take off the keyboard and change to other mods. But I suppose there will be a group only care about the keyboard (like me). So the "new N950" is a better option.
- Regarding Lineage OS, this is in my opinion the best one for Android. Lineage OS is free and open source, but can I ship as an default OS? I couldn't even find anyone to ask and contact. Any ideas on that?
- Regarding Sailfish OS, the barrier is mainly front cost and time. This is not something I can achieve easily and instantly. It's much easier said than done.
- What's the difference with Moto Z + Keyboard with this device?
At least 7mm thinner
Much better feelings. Top thinner + Bottom thicker instead of other way round.
The advantage of Moto Z is you can take off the keyboard and change to other mods. But I suppose there will be a group only care about the keyboard (like me). So the "new N950" is a better option.
- Regarding Lineage OS, this is in my opinion the best one for Android. Lineage OS is free and open source, but can I ship as an default OS? I couldn't even find anyone to ask and contact. Any ideas on that?
- Regarding Sailfish OS, the barrier is mainly front cost and time. This is not something I can achieve easily and instantly. It's much easier said than done.
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2017-07-24
, 05:01
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Posts: 1,478 |
Thanked: 9,871 times |
Joined on Dec 2008
@ Shanghai / London
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#70
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Originally Posted by gerbick
It will be a later build. 4.4 was shipped with Turing and Jolla C. On the newer chipset such as the Snapdragon 650 in Xperia X, I'm not sure technically they can ship with Android 4.4, it has to be something newer as old android version isn't supported by the new chipset.
I would agree; however Android 4.4 support in the day and age of Android 7.1 leaves a lot to be desired.
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| Tags |
| n950 revival, q-device, qwerty keyboard, sailfishos, sailingchen |
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What do you excpect in terms of price?
The reason I ask is to see your ezcpection in relation to price.
Do something for the climate today! Anything!
I don't trust poeple without a Nokia n900...