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andrewfblack is offline andrewfblack
2008-05-21 , 14:10
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#81
Originally Posted by Reggie View Post
I would like to turn this discussion around and look at it from the perspective of the end-users. When I say end-users, I mean the majority -- consumers with zero to average knowledge of linux, packages, debs, repositories, and Maemo. Let's face it, much of what we have now are just too confusing for them. A lot of them won't install apps and a lot of them will not go as far to know what Maemo is.

I would have wanted a system to make it easy for them. I would have wanted a system that they can use and have them upload desktop backgrounds, themes, maybe submit their own NumptyPhysics levels. I want it to be fun for them by letting them be a part of the system -- able to upload, discuss, and talk directly to the developers.

Instead, what we have is a slow, hard to get to, developer-centric system with an identity crisis. What's more, it has no direct connection to Tableteer, and provides a messy link to Application Manager.

I created a system that I can control and integrate more. It was not much but I had the best intentions to help the end-users and ultimately love their tablets. It was shot down before it can even take off.

I don't think no one in Maemo.org shares my vision. Sure, they want to improve some things but up to what level? Is it up to the end-user level?

Syndication is easy but I think is the wrong solution. All it does is make the developers' life easier but does really nothing for the end-users.
Reggie I still think this is a good idea. People just didn't give it time, there is so much more stuff that you couldn't have offered to End Users to download that they can't find at maemo.org. I for one would have liked a templete section so people could create templetes and upload them, it would have also been cool for a section for Flash games and programs that run well on the tablets. I have found a lot of games that are fun and run well(and are free) that I have no where to post them for people to fine easly. There is alot of stuff that could have been done with this and I hope you don't give up on it. I know you worked hard on it.
 
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joepagiii is offline joepagiii
2008-05-21 , 14:15
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#82
well like it or not i think this needs to happen....linux as a whole needs to be drug out and made user friendly and older mindsets need to evolve ..i understand everyone has done there time as newbies heck i will never consider myself above that level and its not too good to give all the answers but sometimes a little direction cant hurt
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GeneralAntilles is offline GeneralAntilles
2008-05-21 , 14:23
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#83
Originally Posted by Reggie View Post
I have to clarify that I'm when I say Maemo.org, it's the folks that run it, not the developers.
Perhaps, but did you bother to try communicating with them about it, or did you just assume that they're not interested? X-Fade (Niels Breet) is the new(ish) community man-on-the-inside* for maemo.org. His entire job is to get with the community and make things happen for the website, and this certainly fits into the realm of "things". If you'd been following the discussions on the lists and announcements on maemo.org, you'd realize that Nokia is trying to move maemo.org more into community hands and for the community's desires.

*We've also got dneary (Dave Neary) as the new community docmaster, and andre (Andre Klapper) and guenther (Karsten Bräckelmann) as the new bugmasters.
Last edited by GeneralAntilles; 2008-07-02 at 15:46.
 

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jukey's Avatar
jukey is offline jukey
2008-05-21 , 14:28
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#84
IMHO the maemo.org download section ist a very good place for tablet beginners to catch software for there device.
Most of the applications in the download section provide a link to there garage page or home page.

End user to end user discussions are possible in ITT without any problem. Discussions about new desktop backgrounds, levels für numty physics and stuff like this could be discussed here too.

On maemo.org the problem is, that there seems to be no possibility not to show a forum / bugzilla / ... per application. E.g. for me it is not transparent where to post a bug. In bugs.maemo.or or in the bugzilla of the project? where to discuss the software? Maybe it would be a good idea to let the owner of a maemo.org project put links to discussions / levels / stuff (e.g. in ITT) into the project page. But not only the owner - other people to like in a wiki.

Just my 2 cent,
jukey
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Reggie's Avatar
Reggie is offline Reggie
2008-05-21 , 14:29
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#85
Originally Posted by GeneralAntilles View Post
Perhaps, but did you bother to try communicating with them about it, or did you just assume that they're not interested? X-Fade (Niels Breet) is the new(ish) community man-on-the-inside* for maemo.org.
Yup, some months back. Yes, I know about X-Fade (link).
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briand is offline briand
2008-05-21 , 14:45
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#86
Reggie --

I understand what you're saying, and I am in agreement with your thinking on the process -- it should be convenient for the users. ...and, I say that as a developer (although, not [yet] an NIT developer).

I hope that some version of your vision comes to pass, here... it is, as you've noted, sorely needed, and should be driven by the needs/wants of the end-users, regardless of (and sometimes, despite) their individual technical acumen.

Is it perfect? No. ...nor is it necessarily cast in stone, either. I think you've got a good starting point, and that you're going at it from the right direction. It should be about making things easier and more convenient for the users. If that means it makes it more difficult, or less convenient, for the developers, then maybe that's the price to be paid. ...or something that can be improved upon as the whole process matures.
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2008-05-21 , 15:30
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#87
I'm still confused as to why this topic has to polarize. I also don't understand why syndication wasn't a solution.

But what I do understand is that two different (but related) core issues are being blurred here, as gnuite pointed out, and I think this discussion is just gonna stay wrapped around the axle until the 2 distinct conversations are separated. To reiterate, they are:

-using maemo garage (or alternatives) to manage app development

-using maemo downloads (or alternatives) to make finished apps available to end users

There have already been threads created (and HIGHLY populated) for both topics-- so can't we ease back into the best of each one and continue the dialog there? Otherwise I think this is just going to get messier... especially since both sides do have very valid points.
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dkwatts is offline dkwatts
2008-05-21 , 16:24
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#88
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
I'm still confused as to why this topic has to polarize. I also don't understand why syndication wasn't a solution.

But what I do understand is that two different (but related) core issues are being blurred here, as gnuite pointed out, and I think this discussion is just gonna stay wrapped around the axle until the 2 distinct conversations are separated. To reiterate, they are:

-using maemo garage (or alternatives) to manage app development

-using maemo downloads (or alternatives) to make finished apps available to end users

There have already been threads created (and HIGHLY populated) for both topics-- so can't we ease back into the best of each one and continue the dialog there? Otherwise I think this is just going to get messier... especially since both sides do have very valid points.
I'm still confused:

Where is the End-User one-stop shop for downloading developing NumptyPhysics levels, desktop backgrounds, themes, MicroB userstyles, Flash Games etc.?
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Jaffa is offline Jaffa
2008-05-21 , 16:30
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#89
Originally Posted by dkwatts View Post
Where is the End-User one-stop shop for downloading developing NumptyPhysics levels, desktop backgrounds, themes, MicroB userstyles, Flash Games etc.?
Indeed, there isn't one: no-ones been uploading their content to the systems currently available. Having said that, I can see a clear distinction between application software (which may be supported by the author, has distinct versions etc) and user-generated content such as background images.

Themes are effectively applications, so should be in downloads.maemo.org, as could userstyles (and, if desired, backgrounds or - more likely - collections thereof).

Flash games are a little dangerous: copyright violations are likely to be occurring left, right and centre if they're uploaded to random places.

All of your examples could fit into downloads.maemo.org without requiring too much in the way of a user contortion.
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Texrat's Avatar
Texrat is offline Texrat
2008-05-21 , 16:32
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#90
Originally Posted by dkwatts View Post
I'm still confused:

Where is the End-User one-stop shop for downloading developing NumptyPhysics levels, desktop backgrounds, themes, MicroB userstyles, Flash Games etc.?
You bring up a good question, but that still dilutes the subject. Those aren't maemo applications, so if another site hosts them, there isn't any overlap or conflict with existing prescribed resources.

So here we have a legitimate fork, and in my opinion what Reggie proposed would fit the bill specific to that context. At the same time, I believe maemo should be pressured to add support for such things.

EDIT: I see Andrew partially disagrees with me on what constitutes a maemo app. That's fine. I just think that most of what dkwatts listed are support files, not apps-- BUT I do think maemo should broaden to embrace them (not the Flash).
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Last edited by Texrat; 2008-05-21 at 16:43.
 
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