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bazanime is offline bazanime
2008-01-08 , 17:18
Posts: 19 | Thanked: 3 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#111
so everything that has been said beforehand is now null and void? nokia dont need to do a thing? cos now this is being hijacked by backpating and choir.

tthere are real issues her that are being hilighted. dont take one misguided comment and base a whole retort on it, thus stifling the serious comments.

also, quit comparing to ms. i know its hard for the linux community take a stab or two, but we arent talking about them now. doesnt help to make comments like "if u dont like it gtfo and go unhappy with winmo"......it doesnt help at all.


lets be civil about this and get back on point.
 
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bilofsky is offline bilofsky
2008-01-08 , 17:29
Posts: 145 | Thanked: 33 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#112
Originally Posted by zerojay View Post
48 years of programming, but uncomfortable at a command line prompt. How sad.
Not sad. Actually I am much happier now than back in the day, when I would spend weeks at a time on a 16 hour a day coding jag.

I could get very comfortable doing all the Unix/linux command line stuff again, as I was in 1975 when I wrote the first full screen editor for Unix. Before your time, no doubt.

It's just that there are only so many hours in the day, and at this point in my life I have other priorities for them than climbing the learning curve and hacking around in yet another system environment, even one I knew in its original incarnation.

It's already taken more hours than it should have to get my N810 to realize its current fraction of its potential. (And I hope that gets the conversation back on substance.)
 
coffeedrinker is offline coffeedrinker
2008-01-08 , 17:32
Posts: 168 | Thanked: 51 times | Joined on Jun 2007
#113
Originally Posted by petergunn View Post
2) Scratchbox + Matchbox - OMG amazing!! I have never seen such a marvelously useless combination of geeky technology. It takes hours to install and gigabytes of disk space, or a huge VM download and either allow vmware to take over your system or use qemu and flaky cut'n paste. Apps can be built from source and because Maemo is debian like it only takes a moderate amount of frustration to get things to compile - woohoo! erm.. well then there is the issue that there really aren't any Linux apps that work out the box with Matchbox or Hildon input and beyond a handful like microb, xournal (still havent got it to install), and maemo mapper and you probably wouldnt want the others anyway. Seriously gigabytes of system scripts, headers, libraries? What are you thinking Nokia? You need a simplified dev environment that runs on the n8x00 and lets people build useful apps. Geez - I get at least Flash is an option now. Processor not powerful enough, not enough RAM for gcc, not enough storage? I dont think so.
This addresses my greatest frustration with the tablet, and I mentioned it in the x86 v. ARM thread. The development environment is a hassle, so much so that I haven't even bothered to set it up for the 2008 OS.

Under 2007 I had my tablet running with fvwm and could launch and run any of the apps on the tablet with multiple 'windows.' I could simply move between them to access various apps. I also was able to port any x11 program to my system without 'Hildonizing' it.

However, two things were a problem.

The first was that the web browser does not run like any of the other apps and would not run properly in another window manager AND no other suitable web browser could be ported to the n800.

The second problem, and far more frustrating to me, was the fact that Nokia released the source code for the system under the GPL but IT WAS CORRUPTED AND WAS UNCOMPILABLE. I mentioned this in the developers thread. The modified the window code in order to make sure no pop up windows were blocking, but that caused problems with menus under different window managers.

The n800 is a great little pocket computer, but it is most limited to me because of these issues.
 
sjgadsby is offline sjgadsby
2008-01-08 , 17:33
Posts: 5,335 | Thanked: 8,187 times | Joined on Mar 2007 @ Pennsylvania, USA
#114
Originally Posted by bazanime View Post
so everything that has been said beforehand is now null and void? nokia dont need to do a thing? cos now this is being hijacked by backpating and choir.
Aww, nuts. Like I said, I'm not denying there's a problem. I simply have not had it happen to me, and I was curious as to what others were seeing.

I only brought up the possibility of redesigning GPE Summary--were it the applet that caused the most trouble--because even if the Maemo developers agree with the need for locking applets, it'll likely be several months before Nokia releases another firmware update that might include a fix. I don't follow GPE's development, but I imagine it has to move faster than Maemo's.

Updating third party software to work around deficiencies in a platform isn't unusual, nor is it pretending the deficiencies aren't there. It's simply getting a working solution out to users while you yell at the platform developers.
 
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akd is offline akd
2008-01-08 , 17:34
Posts: 304 | Thanked: 32 times | Joined on Nov 2007 @ somewhere in the far south
#115
Originally Posted by Texrat View Post
The previous OS locked the applets by default. People complained. Maemo changed it.

next?
As far as I can remember, I was able to arrange the applets and then, accepting the design, lock them. I always prefers freedom of choice, so better would be lock/unlock option. Common sense.
 

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Texrat is offline Texrat
2008-01-08 , 17:35
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#116
Originally Posted by Rebski View Post
My complaint is not that the applets move when I don't want them to, this has never happened, but rather to size and postion them to where I want them to be.

The old Os2007 way made it easy to arrange them, the new Os2008 makes it a nightmare.
I actually agree. I can't put anything where I want it without significant, frustrating effort.

Seems we traded one devil for another. Back to the drawing board!

Originally Posted by akd View Post
As far as I can remember, I was able to arrange the applets and then, accepting the design, lock them. I always prefers freedom of choice, so better would be lock/unlock option. Common sense.
Again, agreed. Seems the cure was worse than the cause!
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Texrat is offline Texrat
2008-01-08 , 17:38
Posts: 11,700 | Thanked: 10,045 times | Joined on Jun 2006 @ North Texas, USA
#117
Originally Posted by bazanime View Post
so everything that has been said beforehand is now null and void? nokia dont need to do a thing? cos now this is being hijacked by backpating and choir.
Hey, that works 2 ways, ya know!

I hate those choirs with torches and pitchforks...
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bilofsky is offline bilofsky
2008-01-08 , 17:41
Posts: 145 | Thanked: 33 times | Joined on Dec 2007
#118
Originally Posted by sjgadsby View Post
I keep seeing complaints about this, but I've never had a desktop applet move when I didn't want it to in OS2008 ... what in tarnation are folks doing with their desktops to make their applets skitter all over the place?
Sometimes I wake up the tablet by touching the screen with my finger. Sometimes I pick it up and inadvertently touch the screen. Sometimes I tap an applet and the stylus skids. Maybe I've gotten used to it, but my applets don't move as often as they used to. But it still happens.

I know, I know:

Patient: "Doctor, it hurts when I do this."
Doctor: "Then don't do that."

But if some people, especially new users, do it, then it does drag down the user experience.
 
namtastic is offline namtastic
2008-01-08 , 18:02
Posts: 169 | Thanked: 38 times | Joined on Jul 2007 @ Brooklyn, NY
#119
Originally Posted by Rebski View Post
My complaint is not that the applets move when I don't want them to, this has never happened, but rather to size and postion them to where I want them to be.
I think there are two issues to the current home applet problems:

* Interacting with elements in an applet often cause the applet to move instead (like GPE which has a scrollbar)

* Accidental input, such as a tap on an item being registered as a drag instead

I don't know who complained about the lock mode -- I preferred it, actually -- but I totally agree with Rebski. It's why something as common as accidental input becomes a problem, because it's irritating to try to fix the placement/size of the applet if the system won't take your settings exactly.

FWIW, the original lock problems had to do with the model of editing and committing/canceling. It would have better to have made locked-or-unlocked a selectable state of the Home screen at all times, just like the browser's "Fit width to view" setting.
 
TA-t3 is offline TA-t3
2008-01-08 , 18:03
Posts: 3,841 | Thanked: 1,079 times | Joined on Nov 2006
#120
Hm, I have yet to upgrade to OS2008.. I'll wait for the next release. But from what I read above the new desktop applet adjustment mechanism sounds awful.. If people have complained about the locked-down applets I really wonder what they were complaining about - it was of course perfectly possible (and very easy) to manipulate the applets also in OS2007 (the only issue I have with it is that in particular the Nokia-provided applets can't be size-reduced any way I want).

So, I agree with texrat, bilofsky and akd. And I also sometimes wake up the tablet exactly as bilofsky described above.
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