No, it would be the opposite of tablet scene, it would be for people who think Talk isn't hardcore enough!

To go back to the original poster's point, is there really a (legal) hacking topic that can't be discussed here on Talk? I don't think this forum is particularly newbie-oriented.

Seems everyone missed the real meaning behind my post - that the forum will be as short-lived as Tablet Scene.

seems I forgot to hit the humor button when I replied the first time

Wouldn't it be simpler to create a subforum and delegate management and moderation of it to those who would form this new forum anyway?

Well that is what we had. It was removed, so I assume the community does not want this?

Well what we had but without the management and moderation subbed out. I have already said I would be a moderator, and I would be glad to manage the KDE subforum, but its gone.

This thread was also about sectioning off the hacking's from the properly developed software.

At this time, yes... I agree 100%.

It all depends on the numbers. All my instinct's tell me that Nokia is expecting much larger sales #'s with the upcoming Maemo device. They may even be projecting other outlets for the OS.

If and when that occurs it would actually be in Nokia's best interest if other fora emerged. Particularly ones that promote additional uses for their devices that they can not support for whatever reason.

Hence my earlier suggestion to work within this forum for now using the tools that are provided. When the time comes to make the move, the numbers will support it.

As long as it is done upfront and without animosity, many members of this forum will also belong to a new one if it serves their needs.

Wait for the numbers first though pb, or as Bundyo suggests. You'll be another Tablet School.

...Tablet School BTW, would pro'ly still be providing a needed service if Nokia kept selling the devices at increasing rates. As sales drop or even level out, the proportion of veteran users who can help new users increases.

I just want to point out that as of sometime late 2008, we all became 'tablet hackers', as Nokia no longer officially supports any software for existing devices. The only supported version of Maemo is currently an operating system that runs only on Beagleboards and unreleased hardware. The only current, updated operating systems available for the tablets are entirely to be found in the alternatives section. The only updated software is third party (i.e. community) projects.

So I understand the frustration here; what exactly IS maemo.org? Some obsolete OS versions, a beta SDK, and a lot of great community software devs that seem to get way too much grief from 'community leadership'...

I can't find the vote that the community had to remove the subforums, so how do these things get decided?

Is there some other "community" that the one made up of the people here?

What is the process do we have a poll, and the outcome decides what happens?

Or is the heart of this issue that the community isn't a community? Or is that it is a community, but there is a lack of visibility of the processes?

Who has access to change the forum structure and permissions and what is their brief?

(sectioning off can be done with subforums and signage to make sure newcomers are warned. No need for a separate forum, as long as the requisite freedom to make this forum suit community requirements is present).

The argument that Nokia would prefer to have the platform hackers separated from the rest doesn't stand. The Maemo platform is open and the devices that come with it are open: being hackable is part of the deal. Maemo SW is supporting explicitely Mer without putting conditions on what is underneath the Maemo 5 API. We haven't stopped anybody to install and promote alternative desktop or entire operating systems. penguinbait, specially you have been supported with easier access to hardware and events for you great hacks, just like any other senior developer in the house.

From a Nokia point of view there is not a huge difference between a user installing Mauku, rotation support, KDE or Android: all of them have crossed the line of the 100% supported software and in a worst case all of them can come back to the factory settings by reflashing.

Note that a single and apparently innocent desktop widget can drain silently the battery. This makes users think there is something wrong with their Nokia devices, they are unhappy and complaining about the wrong thing ("this battery sucks!") and calling Nokia Care. This is the kind of software that we want to keep far from the average end user.

Installing Debian with KDE in a chroot and hav fun with it? No problem since it's clear that the users going that way know what they are doing.

It's not like that and I'm pretty sure you know it.

What if we all stop playing black-or-white in order to find ways of consensus? This is what living in community is all about.

Yesterday I proposed you to Reggie to become moderator. You can start working in Alternatives and push your proposals from there.



The reorganization of the forum was proposed, discussed and executed publicly at Forum reorg pointing to talk.maemo.org

The same question was asked and discussed recently at no further subforum classification in the Alternatives forum. Anybody interested in the future of the Alternatives forum is encouraged to discuss there.

As you see, in both threads you find consistent reasons for the merge. But things evolve, always. New and better ideas come, things are always open for discussion.

Reggie is the admin and he is the one having permissions to create, move, merge, delete forums. But he doesn't act alone at own will as he follows proposals and discussions and tries to execute what comes out of them.

Sure, but isn't this the situation now. The problem is not about "community requirements" not being heard. The problem is that communities usually come up with conflicting requirements, leading to discussion and hopefully consensus on the decisions to make.

Some community members wanted less forums and some community members wanted more. What to do? You can discuss and agree. Oh well, you can also split and go. It makes sense to try hard at discussing and agreeing first, though.

Some members of the community asked for a simplification of the forum structure, making it more suitable for newcomers and moving away or merging all the subforums that had little activity or maintenance.

KDE is a good example: how many threads and posts have you seen in the last months? Probably not enough to deserve an own forum. Sure, there are some interesting threads and URLs that anybody interestd in putting KDE in their device should be aware of. This is what sticky threads and wiki pages and are made for.

The reality is that even if we are able to create +100 posts a day discussing and we have a dozens of participants over 500 posts, it is being really hard to find volunteers to write a single informative sticky posts, to make good use of tags to offer clever searches and to improve wiki pages.

This is where the meat relies and you don't even need to be a moderador to go and make a difference for the users you want to help.