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nosa101 is offline nosa101
2010-05-25 , 20:38
Posts: 1,667 | Thanked: 561 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#191
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Progress, indeed. I think you're overlooking what I actually said.

There is not enough advancement that it will not replace the main OS at the moment. Progress? Hell yes. Enough to convince me to drop Maemo? Not yet.

Please don't mince my words yet again.
I hate when people bring this up but you don't own an n900. If you don't an n900, wouldn't that make convincing you to drop maemo even harder.

My stupidty aside...

MeeGo and NITDroid are at the same stage right now: WIP

There's not enough advancement in MeeGo to convince you to drop Maemo either
 
geohsia is offline geohsia
2010-05-25 , 20:40
Posts: 515 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#192
Originally Posted by NvyUs View Post
why are people saying that Google and Apple offer updates to existing phones but nokia dont.
they are just updating a existing OS same as nokia do with PR 1.1 and PR 1.2.
no mobile device as ever had an official update to a completely different Operating System, they just fix bugs and add new features to the one existing on the devices, NOKIA have been doing this for years but it seems to made into a big deal if your google or apple
When iPhone 3.0 OS came out it was supported across ALL iphones, including the original, more than 2 years after the original.

For Android, its been taking a long time on some devices but many are moving to 2.xObviously there are hardware issues. Older hardware can not support features in newer hardware. Fair, but the OS still worked.

Do N900 users have an entitlement attitude? You may think so but we bought into a Maemo world where we were promised many thing that have yet to be delivered. Flash 10.1 being one example.

While I applaud the 1.2 release the fact of the matter is that the N900 is still very much behind in terms of stability and maturity of the OS. We want it to be matured and if that means Meego that means Meego.

Now, you say that Meego is a New OS but you and I know its not. Harmattan is not a complete overhaul of the OS. Harmattan is closer to being binary compatible to Maemo than MeeGo.next (Maemo / Moblin).

If you look at bug database it is clear that many bugs were deferred to Harmattan which is Maemo + bug fixes. If I have to pay $20 or $30 for a stable and mature version of the OS I'm happy to do so but right now from what I see 1.2 is a step in the right direction but it is certainly no Android or iPhone OS when it comes to maturity.

So Maemo users feel left out to dry because we have heard lots of great words from Nokia about how wonderful and important Maemo is and months after people bought in they dumped it and have moved on to something else.

If they say they will continue to iterate Maemo to 1.3, 1.4, 1.5 and so on to the point where pound for pound it is as functional as Meego equivalents then no one would care. Give us OVI maps, give us Flash. Keep iterating the phone so that communication functionality works well. Video Skype is a great first step but its still version 1.0 functionality.

If they do this no one would care about MeeGo (Harmattan) but I'm not holding my breath. By their actions they are fast tracking the EOL of the N900 and moving on to MeeGO and we're just left with broken promises which is why so many people are up in arms.
 
gerbick
2010-05-25 , 20:49
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#193
Originally Posted by TheLongshot View Post
Point being, such "mistakes" continue to this day. Nokia isn't alone in this. (See the HD2)
Oh, trust. The lack of proper updates is what got me to abandon WinMo when HP released the iPaq 2210, then said it would support the upcoming Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition update, then they retracted it right after my company purchased 500 of them.

I've not been a WinMo user since. Guess what's about to happen to Maemo?

I'm not blind that it happens. But it doesn't mean that I have to support it.

I'll disagree with you that hope is dead for the N900 simply because there won't be an official MeeGo build for the N900. The hope shifts now to applications, which is the lifeblood for any platform, and that gets a boost with pr1.2 with QT 4.6 and the opening of Ovi Store. With a compatible framework and a commercial store, that opens things up for more applications, potentially. If we didn't have that, I'd have to agree with you.
To be honest... I truly hope I am 100% wrong. Would love to see MeeGo in a truly usable form come out of this, full utilization of Qt 4.6 and a PR1.3 that fixes the persisting bugs in PR1.2.

Considering it seems the average phone user changes devices at least every couple of years, if not more often, I think that's less of an issue than those used to the tablet market.
I tend to not change per 18-20 or so months. Give or take a few changes due to faulty phones, but that's about my average in the last 11 years.

I don't think it was a bad decision at all. Until they allow me to use a stylus on a capacitive screen, I'll probably never feel comfortable with it. I also prefer a h/w keyboard as well over touch screen.
It was a decision that stopped the current gen from becoming the next gen. "Bad" decision, or just limited planning. That's my take.

Thanks for being civil. It's much appreciated.
 
gerbick
2010-05-25 , 20:56
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#194
Originally Posted by nosa101 View Post
I hate when people bring this up but you don't own an n900. If you don't an n900, wouldn't that make convincing you to drop maemo even harder.
I am a two-time prior Maemo customer, and I was a potential customer... until now.

Feel free to bring up I don't own a N900. Just understand that I would have been one of the owners that could have been distraught about it if I felt like I was "betrayed" by Nokia and left with little to know options in terms of future iterations.

Ownership in this case, I've invested enough into this Maemo forum and I've done what has become a mantra for owners here "Do your research first" - where's the fault in that? I'm doing research.

Are you against me doing that?

And are you stating that I don't know enough about Maemo to have any say?

MeeGo and NITDroid are at the same stage right now: WIP
Yes, they are. But the likelihood of them getting out of that status is rather low. Case in point... Mer, Mer^2.

We'll see. But as it stands, this whole "you don't own a N900" cannot be held against me when I'm doing research to avoid becoming one of the very angry "NOKIA HAS *#$@(&*@&#($&*@ ME" rhetoric.
 

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geohsia is offline geohsia
2010-05-25 , 21:23
Posts: 515 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#195
Originally Posted by quipper8 View Post
the way i understand it , yes there is a team working on hardware adaptation of Meego, but there is only a community effort for the Nokia Meego instance known as harmattan.

technically, meego runs on the n900 right now...
What MeeGo core? It's like buying an engine off of CraigsList and saying that you have a brand new car. Technically it might run, but without a body, drive train, wheels and everything else you need to get from point a to b you ain't going nowhere.

Technically that engine could drive you from LA to SF but practically you're no where closer than from where you began.
 

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geohsia is offline geohsia
2010-05-25 , 21:33
Posts: 515 | Thanked: 259 times | Joined on Jan 2010
#196
Originally Posted by andrewfblack View Post
Don't know if you guys know it or not but there is a group of paid professonal programmers working on Meego on N900. It is being done my people just like the people who are making Meego for the next device. Just because there are is no Offical Shinny Nokia Stamped update doesn't mean that there is not a professonal update being paid for by Nokia.
From what I can gather what is being discussed those professional developers are developing MeeGo and right now they can only run on the N900. They're not developing MeeGo so that N900 users have a MeeGo experience.

If they were intending on unleashing the MeeGo experience on the N900 they would have said so. They haven't.

When the MeeGo device is available I'll bet you those professional developers will no longer be on the N900. They happened to develop ON the N900 now. They're NOT developing MeeGo FOR the N900. That's a big difference.
Last edited by geohsia; 2010-05-25 at 22:33.
 
TheLongshot is offline TheLongshot
2010-05-25 , 21:34
Posts: 234 | Thanked: 160 times | Joined on Oct 2009
#197
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post
Oh, trust. The lack of proper updates is what got me to abandon WinMo when HP released the iPaq 2210, then said it would support the upcoming Windows Mobile 2003 Second Edition update, then they retracted it right after my company purchased 500 of them.

I've not been a WinMo user since. Guess what's about to happen to Maemo?
Again, tell me what phone platform doesn't have this problem? Probably just the iPhone, and that's likely because all iterations are pretty similar hardware-wise. Even so, I hear that iPhone programmers code to the LCD anyways.

To be honest... I truly hope I am 100% wrong. Would love to see MeeGo in a truly usable form come out of this, full utilization of Qt 4.6 and a PR1.3 that fixes the persisting bugs in PR1.2.
As long as applications continue to come out, I don't much care if MeeGo comes out for the N900. As for fix persisting bugs, as a software developer by trade, I know you never get all of them.

I tend to not change per 18-20 or so months. Give or take a few changes due to faulty phones, but that's about my average in the last 11 years.
I haven't owned that many phones, and until this one I pretty much was using them until they died. Course, I'm probably unusual in this.

It was a decision that stopped the current gen from becoming the next gen. "Bad" decision, or just limited planning. That's my take.
I don't look at it like that. I like that the hardware seems to be progressing, rather than the rather homogeneous hardware that is the iPhone. Then again, as I said, a capacitive screen with no keyboard would have been a non-starter to me.

Maybe the real answer is to have OSs which are optimized for whatever phone they are running, but a common framework which everyone can develop against. Certainly that's Android's approach. While it isn't the plan with Maemo, it is certainly the compromise to keep the N900 relevant until it does reach EOL.

Thanks for being civil. It's much appreciated.
I understand where you are coming from. At the same time, I knew what I was getting into when I bought this phone. Most here knew that Harmattan was coming down the pipeline when this phone was released and that the possibility was always going to be there that the N900 wasn't going to get it.

That being said, we are still a long way from Harmattan/MeeGo being in a real device. While we expect an announcement to happen sometime this year, it hasn't happened yet. We have few clues about what the UI is going to look like, since the OS isn't completed yet.
 
nosa101 is offline nosa101
2010-05-25 , 21:38
Posts: 1,667 | Thanked: 561 times | Joined on Feb 2010
#198
Originally Posted by gerbick View Post

Yes, they are. But the likelihood of them getting out of that status is rather low. Case in point... Mer, Mer^2.

We'll see. But as it stands, this whole "you don't own a N900" cannot be held against me when I'm doing research to avoid becoming one of the very angry "NOKIA HAS *#$@(&*@&#($&*@ ME" rhetoric.
But Mer and Mer^2 and completely different animals from NITDroid. The motivations for the projects are different.

The owning thing was a joke
 
gerbick
2010-05-25 , 21:47
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#199
Originally Posted by TheLongshot View Post
Again, tell me what phone platform doesn't have this problem? Probably just the iPhone, and that's likely because all iterations are pretty similar hardware-wise. Even so, I hear that iPhone programmers code to the LCD anyways.
The original iPhone got 3 iterations of the OS. Apple has gone on record to state that all of their phone will get 3 major revisions of the OS.

Android, some phones have received updates from 1.0 to the upcoming 2.2. Not all, but most. That is a minefield in itself though navigating which ones will receive support. Thus, research...

As long as applications continue to come out, I don't much care if MeeGo comes out for the N900. As for fix persisting bugs, as a software developer by trade, I know you never get all of them.
Historically, once a new OS is announced by Nokia, the apps start trickling out and slow down to a crawl.

I don't look at it like that. I like that the hardware seems to be progressing, rather than the rather homogeneous hardware that is the iPhone. Then again, as I said, a capacitive screen with no keyboard would have been a non-starter to me.
To me, the "advancement" of the iPhone platform is finally getting their first upgrade in years with the iPhone 4G. The iPhone, iPhone 3G and iPhone 3GS were more "evolutionary" than true updates imho.

I understand where you are coming from. At the same time, I knew what I was getting into when I bought this phone. Most here knew that Harmattan was coming down the pipeline when this phone was released and that the possibility was always going to be there that the N900 wasn't going to get it.
Like I said... not many people know that in the recently released areas. And here, 6 months after the release of the N900; you have a seriously dead end phone. That's a new record in any potential phone I was interested in.

That being said, we are still a long way from Harmattan/MeeGo being in a real device. While we expect an announcement to happen sometime this year, it hasn't happened yet. We have few clues about what the UI is going to look like, since the OS isn't completed yet.
I'm patient enough to wait; I just have a right to have very little expectation.
 

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gerbick
2010-05-25 , 21:50
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#200
Originally Posted by nosa101 View Post
But Mer and Mer^2 and completely different animals from NITDroid. The motivations for the projects are different.
Agree fully. But as it stands - and I hate to overly simplify things - is that I have only one question in regards to all of the above: "Are any of them finished yet?" and the answer is invariably "No."

But that's to be understood with works in progress. I just can't say that they will ever be finished - such as was the case with Mer and Mer^2.

The owning thing was a joke
Bah, no worries. I figured as much. I'm getting used to it by now.
 
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