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2010-11-24
, 00:21
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Posts: 152 |
Thanked: 47 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Shanghai, China
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#82
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Originally Posted by cfh11
I think the answer is : Niente.
I don't see how openness has anything to do with it. The reason Android and iOS have been so successful is that they have a) a user friendly and intuitive UX b) a robust and profitable app ecosystem which attracts developers and c) brilliant marketing campaigns.
Meego seems to be aiming squarely at a and b (not so sure about c yet) while still retaining its openness. The big question now is what Meego will do to differentiate itself from the other players and convince people to adopt it.
Thats the problem.
In Nokia world 2009, we can see a diagram that shows the future of Maemo 6. better portrait mode support.
Nokia is woking on this now.
But I think it just look like an UI-enhanced Symbian.
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2010-11-24
, 00:40
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Posts: 152 |
Thanked: 47 times |
Joined on Feb 2010
@ Shanghai, China
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#83
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Originally Posted by ossipena
Good point.
nope, they only said: "lets do major improvements to maemo and release work in progress thing just like 770, N800 and N810 were. After N900 we can make entrance to mass markets with Maemo".
I wish Jaaksi would write here occasionally so you would get your lessons from maemo history.
The whole maemo thing was intended to be 5 step program with minimal R&D resources and huge contribution from hacker-developer-early adopter/similar community.
So at first, Nokia just want Maemo supported by the community.
And do not want to build a eco-system like Android,
but the market performance is better than Nokia's estimation,
So Nokia decide to 'go commercial', such as open Ovi market for
N900.
Am I right ?
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2010-11-24
, 00:41
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Posts: 1,062 |
Thanked: 961 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Boston, MA
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#84
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Originally Posted by Ken-Young
Well if the source is not freely distributed, then yes it would be easy to write malicious apps. But I don't think that just because the OS is open it can't be a commercial success. Getting superuser privileges is pretty trivial on most Android phones and they still do just fine.
I was rather sloppily using "open" to mean "allows the owner to do whatever he wants to with the product" rather than open as in Open Source. Can you imagine how well things would work for Apple if iPhones trivially allowed root access + shell as the N900 does? How many phone support people would they have to add to handle calls from people who did some variation of "rm *" ? Imagine how easy it would be to write mallicious apps for a phone that allowed naive users that kind of control over their product. Having a wonderful little computer in your pocket that you completely control, which also happens to be a mobile phone, is just not the right product for most people, no matter how pretty the UI is, and no matter how slick the marketing is.
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2010-11-24
, 01:00
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Posts: 661 |
Thanked: 690 times |
Joined on Jul 2007
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#85
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First I'll say I own 2 N900s 'cause I plan to use it a long time.
But the reason it 'failed' is obvious: lack of functionality and polish. We all know the things it can not do that it really should. And the bugs further diminish its capability. Like how the streaming radio song information will not update in the media player. Or how the media player often will not show the new media loaded on the N900.
And another: the fact that if you rename a file in the file browser the device will not show you that new name.
It is filled with this kind of stuff that is infuriating after a year or more of owning.
Everyone has their own irritations like this. Most of us still like the device despite the flaws because we like what it stands for. But most people don't purchase a phone on principle.
And there you have it, IMHO.
Last edited by lancewex; 2010-11-24 at 01:01. Reason: spelling
But the reason it 'failed' is obvious: lack of functionality and polish. We all know the things it can not do that it really should. And the bugs further diminish its capability. Like how the streaming radio song information will not update in the media player. Or how the media player often will not show the new media loaded on the N900.
And another: the fact that if you rename a file in the file browser the device will not show you that new name.
It is filled with this kind of stuff that is infuriating after a year or more of owning.
Everyone has their own irritations like this. Most of us still like the device despite the flaws because we like what it stands for. But most people don't purchase a phone on principle.
And there you have it, IMHO.
Last edited by lancewex; 2010-11-24 at 01:01. Reason: spelling
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2010-11-24
, 01:35
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Posts: 67 |
Thanked: 14 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
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#86
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does nokia really have to win the market back? new times means change im just glad if they stay in the game, competition !
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2010-11-24
, 01:56
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Posts: 671 |
Thanked: 1,630 times |
Joined on Aug 2010
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#87
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Failed??
It is a machine for the intelligent geek.
In that it has succeeded beyond any other device out there.
If I met someone carrying and using an n900 I would know instantly
that they are definitely not a dimwit or a *****,
regardless of whatever else they may behave as.
I absolutely cannot say that about people who rely upon iPhones, Android etc.
Not they they are all hopelessly clueless,
(many use those devices because they have no time/talent for tinkering
and-or maybe depend upon it for basic functionalities, trendiness, etc.)
but that you cannot judge that book by its cover as well as you can the n900.
With the n900 there is a prerequisite of some spark of intelligence
just to be able to use it for more than a paperweight or fashion accessory.
(Yes, there seems to be slew of apps just to make it exactly such a thing despite all that)
It is a machine for the intelligent geek.
In that it has succeeded beyond any other device out there.
If I met someone carrying and using an n900 I would know instantly
that they are definitely not a dimwit or a *****,
regardless of whatever else they may behave as.
I absolutely cannot say that about people who rely upon iPhones, Android etc.
Not they they are all hopelessly clueless,
(many use those devices because they have no time/talent for tinkering
and-or maybe depend upon it for basic functionalities, trendiness, etc.)
but that you cannot judge that book by its cover as well as you can the n900.
With the n900 there is a prerequisite of some spark of intelligence
just to be able to use it for more than a paperweight or fashion accessory.
(Yes, there seems to be slew of apps just to make it exactly such a thing despite all that)
__________________
Three n900s: One for stable working platform,
One fordevelopment testing Chopping Onions
One forsaltwater immersion power testing resurrected ! parts scavenging
My Mods for Wonko's Advanced Clock Plugin:
ISO8601 clock mod and Momental_IST clock mod
Printing your Email with the N900
Three n900s: One for stable working platform,
One for
One for
My Mods for Wonko's Advanced Clock Plugin:
ISO8601 clock mod and Momental_IST clock mod
Printing your Email with the N900
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2010-11-24
, 03:00
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Posts: 256 |
Thanked: 92 times |
Joined on Oct 2010
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#88
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realy.
1. well we had that kind of argumentation years ago with computers. well the open aproach which was tandy, apple(yes ) and finally the ibm pc succeded. now it's in use in most households. yes there are people formating their hardisks. but seems nevertheless the better aproach. and if the people were not able to install whatever they want on their computers: what effort would that be. noone realy wants to go there.
and yes as little as this devices are, they are by far more powerfull than pcs were a couple of years ago. so that is more than a fair comparison.
2. i want to be able to look at the things. yes and i do want to change things to my liking and my needs.
3. i don't like companies damaging my devices. i rather damage them myself.
4. i can give you a lot of ways to damage the device. most of them need no root access.
5. rather than being concerned about root access of the user i would be concerned about missing pam for instance.
6. most problems folks have here seem not to be some accidental rm * but failing updates, broken packages, hardware issues, and request for little trickery to get more out of their device combined with a lot of innovation. well yes and the innovation and trickery comes to gether with little accidents but seems the folks rather try to fix the things themself and only head for a support if that is not possible.
i think if the n900 was even less open it would have failed even more. if all the folks who make things work for the n900 weren't and it only had the things nokia put in it, this device would be a comparable boring machine.
Last edited by lunat; 2010-11-24 at 03:04.
1. well we had that kind of argumentation years ago with computers. well the open aproach which was tandy, apple(yes ) and finally the ibm pc succeded. now it's in use in most households. yes there are people formating their hardisks. but seems nevertheless the better aproach. and if the people were not able to install whatever they want on their computers: what effort would that be. noone realy wants to go there.
and yes as little as this devices are, they are by far more powerfull than pcs were a couple of years ago. so that is more than a fair comparison.
2. i want to be able to look at the things. yes and i do want to change things to my liking and my needs.
3. i don't like companies damaging my devices. i rather damage them myself.
4. i can give you a lot of ways to damage the device. most of them need no root access.
5. rather than being concerned about root access of the user i would be concerned about missing pam for instance.
6. most problems folks have here seem not to be some accidental rm * but failing updates, broken packages, hardware issues, and request for little trickery to get more out of their device combined with a lot of innovation. well yes and the innovation and trickery comes to gether with little accidents but seems the folks rather try to fix the things themself and only head for a support if that is not possible.
i think if the n900 was even less open it would have failed even more. if all the folks who make things work for the n900 weren't and it only had the things nokia put in it, this device would be a comparable boring machine.
Originally Posted by Ken-Young
I was rather sloppily using "open" to mean "allows the owner to do whatever he wants to with the product" rather than open as in Open Source. Can you imagine how well things would work for Apple if iPhones trivially allowed root access + shell as the N900 does? How many phone support people would they have to add to handle calls from people who did some variation of "rm *" ? Imagine how easy it would be to write mallicious apps for a phone that allowed naive users that kind of control over their product. Having a wonderful little computer in your pocket that you completely control, which also happens to be a mobile phone, is just not the right product for most people, no matter how pretty the UI is, and no matter how slick the marketing is.
Last edited by lunat; 2010-11-24 at 03:04.
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2010-11-24
, 03:31
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Posts: 752 |
Thanked: 284 times |
Joined on Sep 2010
@ Malaysia
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#89
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Why N900 failed on consumer market?
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64R1DI20100528
Why N900 didn't fail on consumer market?
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/28/n...five-months-so
I believe it's clear that the N900 was never meant for the mass consumer market - again, I prefer to use targeted to niche market. In Nokia's quarterly reports, the flagship model in 2009 was the N97. For N900 to compete there, it needs to have a more 'famous' OS...which was obviously the opposite here.
Worldwide Smartphone Sales to End Users by Operating System in 2009 (Thousands of Units)
http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE64R1DI20100528
(Reuters) - Nokia sold less than 100,000 top-of-the-range N900 smartphones in its first five months on the market, researcher Gartner said, indicating it has yet to mount a serious challenge to the iPhone and Blackberry.
http://www.engadget.com/2010/05/28/n...five-months-so
The N900 is not a mass-market device. Nokia's been very clear that the N900 was launched as a means to strengthen its Maemo development community (on the path to MeeGo we now know). Update: While Nokia doesn't normally give out detailed sales figures per device, we've just been told that more than 100,000 N900s sold in the first five weeks -- not months -- globally.
Worldwide Smartphone Sales to End Users by Operating System in 2009 (Thousands of Units)
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2010-11-24
, 04:13
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Posts: 1,425 |
Thanked: 983 times |
Joined on May 2010
@ Hong Kong
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#90
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Originally Posted by Joseph.skb
You're right. Nokia is one of the biggest phone manufacturers that has the production capability to produce different products for different market segments, which could result in maximum profit gain.
I believe it's clear that the N900 was never meant for the mass consumer market - again, I prefer to use targeted to niche market. In Nokia's quarterly reports, the flagship model in 2009 was the N97. For N900 to compete there, it needs to have a more 'famous' OS...which was obviously the opposite here.
OP's question is just like asking why Ferrari 458 failed on consumer market.
(oh well put down your flamethrowers I didn't say N900 is the Ferrari of smartphones so take it easy. XD )
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